[zig]

That range rover could have (should have in my opinion) done a lot of damage to a lot of bikes at the speeds during the chase. I know I shouldn't think like that, but as mentioned before, if my wife and daughter are in need of protection, I'm not going to allow them to be in danger.
I watched the 6 minute version on youtube. Glad to be living in a very rural area!

 

[autofs]

The riders who smashed the SUV windows were very lucky that the driver did not have a gun on him. He could have easily shot them in self defense and gotten away with it, especially because he had a young child and wife around him who were in danger too. It is just stupid on the part of the bikers for what they did. It also gives people a bad impression about all motorcyclists. These crotch-rocket adrenaline junkies should do their stunts where there is no civilization for miles around.

 

[Lunatic]

We've all seen bikers riding like this. Crowding cars, lane splitting, showing off. If you act like a complete jerk on the road, this sort of thing is foreseeable.

I'm sure the SUV driver was scared. I'm unconvinced that the necessary course of action was for him to floor the accelerator and run over another biker, paralyzing him for life.

People clawing at the windows of a car like a bunch of zoo animals is no doubt scary. I'm just not certain it rises to the level of requiring deadly force.

 

[Romans5.8]

We've all seen bikers riding like this. Crowding cars, lane splitting, showing off. If you act like a complete asshole on the road, this sort of thing is foreseeable.

I'm sure the SUV driver was scared. I'm unconvinced that the necessary course of action was for him to floor the accelerator and run over another biker, paralyzing him for life.

People clawing at the windows of a car like a bunch of zoo animals is no doubt scary. I'm just not certain it rises to the level of requiring deadly force.

Look at the end of the video. One of the riders stops towards the car, places both hands on the car door, and yanks it open. What he intended to do next we don't know because the driver then took steps to defend themselves!

He gained access into the vehicle to which he was not permitted. He did so in a threatening manner as well. This is no different than if someone broke into your home. You don't have to wait until they stab or shoot you to defend yourself. The biker he ran over was not an innocent bystander, but a culpable accomplice who was attempting to block him in order to allow this other individual to assault the driver.

 

[SWVA_08V2k]

We've all seen bikers riding like this. Crowding cars, lane splitting, showing off. If you act like a complete asshole on the road, this sort of thing is foreseeable.

I'm sure the SUV driver was scared. I'm unconvinced that the necessary course of action was for him to floor the accelerator and run over another biker, paralyzing him for life.

People clawing at the windows of a car like a bunch of zoo animals is no doubt scary. I'm just not certain it rises to the level of requiring deadly force.

No doubt that what you say is true. I can caught in a Road Rage incident with a guy when I was in college once. No one got hurt and no one got in trouble, but in this case it is hard telling what was said, and what really went down after he rear ended that bike. That video does not capture the whole story, just the actions of the guy in the SUV. I am willing to bet he was probably threatened with his life (just a guess, I don't know). Unless you have previous experience or been trained, when you are out numbered by that much and trapped in a mob, you don't think, you react. And for the folks that mention having a hand gun would have changed the outcome, it might have, but I don't think I would have drew one. Lets get real for a minute, if you have that big of a lawless mob attacking you, odds are more than one of them are packing too. You only have a hand full of rounds. Odds are not in your favor and more than likely you end up dead. I am by no means anti gun, i love my gun and own plenty. But you still have to use ya head and be real about flashing that thing around.

What I want to know is what happened before the video starts.

 

[Scott_in_TX]

We've all seen bikers riding like this. Crowding cars, lane splitting, showing off. If you act like a complete asshole on the road, this sort of thing is foreseeable.

I'm sure the SUV driver was scared. I'm unconvinced that the necessary course of action was for him to floor the accelerator and run over another biker, paralyzing him for life.

People clawing at the windows of a car like a bunch of zoo animals is no doubt scary. I'm just not certain it rises to the level of requiring deadly force.

I hear what you're saying.
The decision to use potentially deadly force isn't going to be easy for most people, myself included.
And I would bet that the driver will always wonder about his decision.

A couple of things though.

The motorcyclists have a better understanding of the danger they put themselves in with their actions than they can expect the driver to have.
They chose the dynamic of the situation and where to place themselves.

They weren't 'clawing' like animals. The were hitting windows and slashing tires like a violent mob.

In a situation like this; waiting until you are certain that deadly force is needed; it's too late.

It's a terrible outcome and even if the driver made a poor decision, one thing is for sure.
ALL of the bikers that tried to intimidate a SUV into slowing/stopping and ALL of the bikers that struck his SUV. Are at least 50% to blame for the guys injuries.

Scott

 

[Daboo311]

We all have an idea what we would do until we are there.

We have a built in reflex when threatened to flee. This driver faced a crazy mob with anger and hatred in their eyes. He felt he had no choice but to go. Someone paid the price!

We know now that the driver's reaction to the threat made the situation more extreme.

The mob mentality overtook those who probably wish that they had tried to stop this whole event early on. The driver may also be wishing he had done something differently while in this awful situation.

What if there had been only 4 bikers instead of the mob? What if there had only been one biker slowing down in front of the SUV and then getting clipped? Would the driver have stopped?

The right thing to do in every confrontation is to attempt a peaceful resolution first... if this is not possible, no other way out, and you have folks to protect, step on the gas.

 

[SWVA_08V2k]

You can't understand crazy, and you can't reason with the unreasonable. It is just part of life. And if everyone of those people were reasonable, they would have called for help, check on their buddy and got him out of the road. But not everyone in that group was being reasonable at the time and made things worse.

 

[Lunatic]

You can't understand crazy, and you can't reason with the unreasonable. It is just part of life. And if everyone of those people were reasonable, they would have called for help, check on their buddy and got him out of the road. But not everyone in that group was being reasonable at the time and made things worse.

When I went down, the first thing the doctor who happened to be driving behind me did was jump out of her car, grab my head, and prevent me from moving anywhere.

Someone clearly should have been in control of that mob, and nobody was.

 

[SWVA_08V2k]

When I went down, the first thing the doctor who happened to be driving behind me did was jump out of her car, grab my head, and prevent me from moving anywhere.

Someone clearly should have been in control of that mob, and nobody was.

I know you are supposed to not move a person with a possible neck/back injury, but being on a freeway, I would have a hard time leaving someone out there that could be in danger of getting run over again. But I guess with the Mob that was around, traffic was not going anywhere in this case.

 

[Dean]

I agree I would like to see the 2 minutes before the video starts, because it seems the first biker (one that slowed down and was bumped, hit, clipped, whatever you want to call it) was already having words with the suv as they drove down the road. I know the cops can't be everywhere, but in the video it shows 4 wheelers and dirt bikes on the road as well.

In the video the suv driver did stop he only ran over the bike (guy getting the broken leg) when the others began to swarm around his vehicle. If my wife and or grandkids were with me, I would try to leave too, then if followed and stopped again..... well there is a reason I carry a gun everywhere, it's not just when I go to work.

Still I would not want to be in that situation, but the safety and security of my family and I come first. The greeting message on my phone says "I will go home at the end of my shift". I truly believe this and live by it even away from work. I will go home.
> stepping down off my soapbox <

 

[Bear2123]

Here's a vid from before the SUV one. Same guy recording it, pulled it from YouTube but it's already out there. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3cd_1380579664

I also frequent "Glocktalk", a Glock forum. Lot's of talk over there and believe it or not the consensus was for the SUV to Run. Limited rounds, wife & child in the car, bikers packing heat as well. I tend to agree and I carry all the time. The phone and the highway were his best out. He failed to stay on the highway, for whatever reason that we'll not ever hear nor understand. Stress I would assume. Hoping that they would no follow?

 

[Romans5.8]

Here's a vid from before the SUV one. Same guy recording it, pulled it from YouTube but it's already out there. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3cd_1380579664

I also frequent "Glocktalk", a Glock forum. Lot's of talk over there and believe it or not the consensus was for the SUV to Run. Limited rounds, wife & child in the car, bikers packing heat as well. I tend to agree and I carry all the time. The phone and the highway were his best out. He failed to stay on the highway, for whatever reason that we'll not ever hear nor understand. Stress I would assume. Hoping that they would no follow?

I agree. If I had to pull a weapon, we're talking last resort. No way out. It's you or me, and it isn't gonna be me. If I can (without putting myself in additional danger) escape, evade, detain or disable; I'll do that. And while he was assaulted by definition of the law (ripping the door open), those bikers are probably all going to rehearse their statement about how 'he started it', which essentially throws self defense out the window in a lot of states. I have a feeling New York is probably one of them.

I'd have done the same thing. Don't know what got him into that mess, but even as a motorcyclist, I'd have done the same thing. Stopped when the bike pulled in front of me, would be dialing 911, and when that door flung open and a masked intruder made threatening motions towards me, I'd be evading the situation.

Now, if it was some innocent bystander in front of me? Things would be different. But the individual who blocked him in is completely culpable and knew exactly what he was doing. He intended to block the driver so that the driver could be assaulted. He's not an innocent bystander caught in the crossfire. What did the other guy intend to do once he got the door open? A lot of these guys take their plates off when they do their big sportbike mobs. He has a face shield on. Would be near impossible to identify him. What were his intentions? I wouldn't have stuck around to find out. He didn't look very big but when he has a helmet, gear, and probably some body armor; there's not a lot you can do.

 

[whiting57]

30 guys, and he only got a couple .... what a bad driver .... after getting the last one, I would have backed up to get me some more.

I have absolutely no sympathy for these idiots. Had he been armed, the situation still would still not have been a even deal .... he would only have had so many bullets .. who knows what they were carrying.

And yes ... the mother on the radio interviewed on CNN is just as big of an idiot. Oh ... her poor boy, what a load of crap. What comes around goes around, and for at least 2 of them, it came around rather quickly.

 

[pacomutt]

I'd like to see a $25,000 fine or 2 years in jail for anyone who can be identified from these videos. That should put a damper on these activities.

 

[whiting57]

I'd like to see a $25,000 fine or 2 years in jail for anyone who can be identified from these videos. That should put a damper on these activities.

2 have already been arrested ...at this time the driver had not been charged.

 

[pacomutt]

2 have already been arrested ...at this time the driver had not been charged.

I'm talking about anyone and everyone who can be identified!

 

[dwhit]

I see these guys constantly on the weekends here in NYC and they are usually 30 bikes at a minimum. They tie up all the streets, run through the lights, cause congestion constantly, the cops follow them and don't do anything to stop them which i guess they can't because once they chase the bikers the bikers start to ride on the sidewalks to get away which harms pedestrians. Basically they wait for the accident to occur.. Last year one of the bikers was killed riding in a pack like this.Several times i see the police following but not intervening. These bikers are basically unlicensed kids some as young as 15 riding dirt bikes, atv's and speed bikes, girls, boys, white, black & Latin. They are not a gang contrary to what the videos show although some of them probably belong to clubs and pick up other stragglers along the way.
I don't blame the driver for gunning it when he was surrounded as i would of done the same with my wife and kids in the car but i do blame him for not slowing down before the incident started. Common sense tells you that when 100 bikers come up on you, you slow down or pull over to let them pass. Hopefully this incident puts a stop to this behavior here in NYC because it is really a nuisance as it occurs often in the summer, like every weekend.

 

[Chas63]

Several lessons to be learned here.

First, if I ever find myself in the position of the driver of the car and surrounded by 30 angry bikers, STAY ON THE HIGHWAY AND KEEP MOVING FAST. At 70 to 80 mph, all you have to do is bump a bike and he won't be a problem to you anymore.

Second, carry more ammo and even a spare gun if possible. One may not be enough.

 

[zig]

Yeah, this is a pretty good arguement against New York's low magazine capacity law.