does the oil filter make any REAL difference?

Yes, on the assumption there is a difference in the filtration properties. Unfortunately, the difference on something like this isn't going to be apparent for a long time.

When you buy a cheap filter that's generally what you get. I know for a fact that not all hydraulic fluid filters that fit on a given machine have the same level of filtration; some are better some are worse, and the better ones generally cost more because they have a higher-quality filtration media inside the can. I can only assume it's the same with engine oil filters because they're in the system to do the same thing.

If it's a convenience thing, just buy enough to cover the time when you can get to the store again...or order them online. Also, IMO, 3K miles change on synthetic is just wasting the oil. I generally change the oil once per year, in the fall when I'm done riding before I put the bike in storage. In the spring I run this same oil until the pattern repeats. Generally this is 5,000 miles, give or take, or once per year change. The manual says 7,500 miles or once per year so it's still well within their recommendations.

 

I doubt it! I know some would disagree. I am running a bosch 3300 at the moment on my 900 with 15w-40 Rotella T( major Taboo for some). I've used fram on all my cars and trucks and never had an oil related problem.

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/FilterStudy.html

 

I'm also a user of the excellent Rotella 15W-40 and Mobil 1 Delvac 1300 oils in my 2008 VN900. 20,000+ miles of use in fact and no oil usage, leakage, mpg change, ect noticed yet. Only one Mobil 1 4T Motorcycle oil change was used just after purchasing the bike until I could do the research I needed to "feel good" about going with the 15w-40 crowd.

Doesn't somebody need to "jump the track" and take a chance for the betterment of the masses and possibly our planet? Afterall, some "deviants" had to be first to run and report the results of extended oil interval chages with automobile oils to disprove the long lived 3,000 mile rule. IMO the first hint that a 3,000 OCI is BS for both bike and car is what's found in your manufacturer's operating manual - 7500 mile oil changes if running under NORMAL operating conditions. That probably accounts for 90% of today's transportation engines and most likely at least 75% of of them. How much oil would be saved if 1/2 of the conservative 75% estimate above ran even the OEM suggested OCI? We listen to our doctors advise on caring for our HEALTH for pete's sake, why not our vehicles manufacturer?

My apologies. I rant on subjects so obvious as this.
Safe riding to all in 2013 !!!!

 

I've been happy with WIX filters. You can get them from Amsoil dealers too. That's where I get mine.

 

And for less than the $11.53 provided you are buying oil too.

Is there a difference ? YES !! Whether you change filters regularly or not there is a direct correlation between filters and wear particles.

A Fram is between 36 and 42 Microns Nominal... The human eye can see to approximately 40 Micron... The WIX 51358 has a 21 Micron Nominal Rating... The AMSOIL has a 15 Micron Absolute rating..

It all depends on what you are looking for.... Run the Best and have less wear or run less and have more wear.

Some people will never put on enough miles to even worry about proper maintenance, much less better maintenance. I put 42,000 on in 2 years, I run nothing but the Best oil and Filters in the Industry.

I just had a customer ask me today about Hi Flo Filters.. They claim to be the Best filter but they will not release the results of Industry Standard ISO 4548-12 tests which they have on file.. What are they hiding ?

Just a few simple questions and the tech guy was so befuddled, he was quoting incorrect numbers and test procedures and gave me his bosses email.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

 

I use the wix filter on my 99 vn800b4 with no problem so far.

 

The WIX 51358 is a very good filter

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

 

What about the K&N oil filter?

 

I am not impressed with anything K&N. Their air filters are meant to keep the "chunks" out and not give you the quality of air for longevity.

Their M/C oil filters do have a good Micron Rating but after numerous cut aparts, do not appear to do a verry good job of trapping the contaminants and keeping them from getting back into the oil stream.

The AMSOIL EA Series is The Best oil filter you can buy at 15 Micron Absolute. Purolator Pure One is an excellellent filter as well but you Cannot use them on a Motorcycle.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

 

k&n air filters

I am not impressed with anything K&N. Their air filters are meant to keep the "chunks" out and not give you the quality of air for longevity.

Their M/C oil filters do have a good Micron Rating but after numerous cut aparts, do not appear to do a verry good job of trapping the contaminants and keeping them from getting back into the oil stream.

The AMSOIL EA Series is The Best oil filter you can buy at 15 Micron Absolute. Purolator Pure One is an excellellent filter as well but you Cannot use them on a Motorcycle.
I was going to change my oem filter to K&N filter till a buddt of mine with one on his pickup was bragging on how good it was and was showing it off, so when he pulled it out there was dust in the air tunnle behind the filter and my regular paper filter when pulled out had no dust behind it. Living out here where the dust blows most of the time thats not good.

 

Where's the best place or the best way to get Amsoil oil and filters for Eljay? I live in the Sacramento area (Fair Oaks). Thanks...

 

Get your amsoil stuff from Bob. His prices are good, and service is impecable.

 

Thank You ! I try my best

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

 

It's not so much being lazy as it is being cost effective..

As I always say.... Reasonable results can be had using a good petroleum oil and a good oil filter. Superior results can be had using a Premium Synthetic oil and a Premium oil filter.

You won't go 3500 miles on an oil change where I go 35,000 miles. My very used and abused work van has over 353,000 miles and don't use any oil. I also use 0W-30 in it. I average over 35,000 miles per year... I change once a year instead of 10 times a year.

Oil analysis has verified the oil was good in my Motorcycle at 11,400 miles and when I have put over 42,000 miles on in 2 years, including off season storage, that is a lot of oil changing that I haven't had to do.

Again: Not lazy... Cost effective

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

 

"7500 mile oil changes if running under NORMAL operating conditions."

That one little word...

The API says over 97% of driving is considered SEVERE and oil change intervals should be reduced by 50%.

OCI's are not just inherently increased in most cases just because of "thinking you can". Oil Analisis should be used to check this.

On one of my customers bikes, the Factory OCI was 5000 miles. With the "Factory" Synthetic, the Analysis showed that at just over 3000 miles, the oil was no longer serviceable. We switched over to AMSOIL and he rode all around Orlando, rode the bike to Sturgis and back, and more riding around Orlando. 9731 miles and the oil Analysis came back "Continue to next regular service interval"

I am in No Way saying Rotella is not a good oil, It is a good oil for the price, there are just way better on the market.

Bob

 

Mr. AMSOIL,

API is full of doo doo. Who are they anyway? And what if XXX said otherwise? Who's correct then?

There's so much more to this discussion than your one time example of the Orlando motorcycle's failed factory syth oil's OA. Not all engines treat oils the same way. You could put that same type of oil in another bike of the same make/model or even a bike of the same make/but different model and get completely different results. Agreed? (You'd better think thrice before disagreeing because it's been proven in automobiles as I'm sure you already know). And the use of OA's are not a one time thing when choosing any oil for XOCI or regular OCI lengths because the result will change (likely for the worse) over time with higher engine mileage. Agreed? (This time you can forgo thinking because it's in favor of your argument).

I've seen enough of your replies on this forum to have noticed a trend - AMSOIL IS your baby and belief. So for the sake of continuing an argument you'll defend until an engine you own blows up due to oil related causes (unlikely even with conventional oil I'd bet) I'll simply conceed to you. You're right. I'm wrong. But that concession does not change my mind nor will result in my retraction of previous statements. You see, or obviously don't, one's beliefs right or wrong, educated or ill concieved are the basis for how one defends the products one purchases or the practices one participates in. Tact must be used when attempting to sway another's opinions or actions.

P.S. I do have an AMSOIL air filter in my truck if that helps you feel the world isn't against AMSOIL products. Given the need or a cost reduction I'd use more synthetics for the obvious "claimed" advantages. Just to many engines of all kinds running on conventional oil to say the cost is worth the product IMO - which apparently doesn't mean much to you. To end on a positive note (never go to bed mad I believe we do agree on the need to reduce our overall oil usage. XOCI for all regardless of the product.

Safe ridin' to ya friend!

 

 

I see "I've used this or that for years with no problems". The thing is, with fluids and filters, without a way to test them, you have no idea if there is a problem.

Purolator, not Bob, says Do Not use a Pure One in a Powersports application. The media is too dense for efficient flow and the by-pass valve is set at 15-19 PSI instead of the required 8-11 PSI. These items could cause an oil flow problem starving the engine.

Many will say I have not had an engine grenade so it must be OK... No one said it would grenade, but it could cause excessive wear that you are unaware of.

Bob

 

Purolator, not Bob, says Do Not use a Pure One in a Powersports application. The media is too dense for efficient flow



Bob

This makes no sense to me.
The denser the media, the less oil it will flow at a given pressure drop across the filter and I am betting that a typical automotive engine, volume wise, pumps way more oil than a motorcycle engine.
So, in other words, a denser media filter would be perfectly workable when oil volumes are lower such as in a motorcycle, no?

 

Mr. Bonkers...

Please, you don't have to say anything to make me feel better.

I am sure you know better than the API and any other company that has done the testing. After all, conjecture is much better than science... At least in your mind.

As you say "AMSOIL is my baby" because it is The Best oil you can buy. When/if I find a better oil and filter, I will use and sell it. If you find one, verified by ASTM Tests, please let me know as I haven't found one since I went into business 41 years ago.

I am over 42,000 miles on my current OCI in my truck where the OEM calls for 3850 under my use.

I go 8000 or one year on my Yamaha, 16-17,000 or so on my Wing and 10-11,000 on my Harley which is used like a truck. My van went 353,000 before I wrapped it around a tree on rainy night and that was on 35,000 mile OCI's. You let me know when you can do that on another oil... safely.

Bob

 

Have you ever looked at the difference between an auto engine pump and a rinky dink pump in a Motorcycle?

The little Motorcycle pump can't push it through...

Don't forget the by-pass pressure being 70% greater than what OEM is.

Bob

 

I'm sure the pump is small but on these Vulcan engines, especially certain ones, the pressure is quite great isn't it? I know, for example, the Vulcan 1500 engine is capable of 100psi in certain conditions. That's WAY more than you'll get out of a passenger automobile.

Not a mechanic or an engineer, just curious is all. I had always understood quite the opposite, that automotive filters couldn't be used because they couldn't handle the pressures of a motorcycle oil system; typically higher than a cars. I'm quite sure i've read that several places.

The only OTHER reason I've heard cited is that the PureOne doesn't allow enough oil FLOW (not necessarily pressure) for high RPM engines. Certainly a 16,000 rpm sportbike engine is a very unique lubrication scenario, much different than, for example, my 3.8L V6 in my car that is SCREAMING at 5,000 RPM's.

As you've mentioned before, just because you've heard something doesn't make it true. Just curious your thoughts on that one.

 

The pump on my bike runs 40 PSI when cold and 34 PSI hot with 20W-50. My truck is over 80 PSI cold and 45 Hot and that is with 5W-30... A 50 weight in my truck would probably run well over 100 cold. My Roadrunner was an 80 PSI cold as well.

I can't see where a little M/C pump is going to do it or, if it will, I can't see how it will last long.

Now, anyone is welcome to go against what the Manufacturer says. Bearing in mind that if there is a problem, they will have ZERO Warranty and all cost is out of their pocket.

Bob

 

The pump on my bike runs 40 PSI when cold and 34 PSI hot with 20W-50. My truck is over 80 PSI cold and 45 Hot and that is with 5W-30... A 50 weight in my truck would probably run well over 100 cold. My Roadrunner was an 80 PSI cold as well.

I can't see where a little M/C pump is going to do it or, if it will, I can't see how it will last long.

Now, anyone is welcome to go against what the Maufacturer says. Bearing in mind that if there is a problem, they will have ZERO Warranty and all cost is out of their pocket.

Bob

Makes sense, just curious, it's what I've heard. I know the 1500 V-Twin will do 100 or more cold. I was comparing that to my car, which would be lucky to hit 50psi, despite being 3800cc's in displacement with 6 cylinders vs 1500cc's in displacement with two!

 

I never recommend going against manufacturers recommendations, BUT, for the reason given, is internet baloney. 50lbs is 50lbs whether it comes from a Road Runner, truck, motorcycle or a tire pump.
If my car, at 35lbs pressure can feed its oil hungry passages, then my bike, at 35lbs pressure can force a much smaller amount of oil through the same media to satisfy the volume demands of its engine.
In addition, I have not seen an actual tech bulletin from Purolator stating that point, only read it on the internet and therefore I am always sceptical!

Saying that the media is too dense for motorcycle use... I am not buying it, sorry.

Some food for thought.

 

You're the expert, so no comment there; I'm just here to learn!

BUT;

http://www.purolatorautofilters.net/products/pages/powersportsfilters.aspx

There's a link to Purolators website with an addendum at the bottom of the page when you scroll down specifically warning against using PureOne filters in a powersports application.

Although someone ought to talk to them about their choice of words. "For vehicles, not bikes". Bikes ARE vehicles, and there is more in the powersports world than motorcycles!

 

Some food for thought:

Go to the Purolator site... PUROLATOR... NOT Bob, says don't do it !!! That is ALL that matters, not anyone's skepticism.

Everyone is concentrating on one oint... PUMP pressure...

You said it in your own post.. VOLUME..

Not one person has said Anything about the 17-19 PSI by-pass where Kawi is 8..

Bob

 

Well, I am amazed at the sentence in the Purolator site:

"PureONE's high efficiency, the motorcycle oil pump may not be able to handle the pressure."

What the heck does that mean? Nothing to me, that is for sure. Can someone explain?

Also, it says nothing about media, nothing about bypass pressure.

 

I saw that too. Someones marketing department really dropped the ball. Grammar issues, and just generally doesn't make sense. A very simple "Not recommended for powersports applications" would suffice, rather than stammering through a poor explanation.

Personally? I don't know enough about this stuff to be foregoing manufacturers recommendations. There is a plethora of motorcycle oil filters available, I have no reason to believe PureOne is such a great alternative that I'm willing to resist engine failure, loss of oil pressure, accelerated wear, or whatever the heck else PureOne thinks is going to happen if I use their filters.

BUT, I sure do wish they'd offer a reasonable explanation. For now I'll have to take everyone elses word for it. But; like I said. There are dozens of oil filters to choose from, why go with PureOne that tells me not to use it with my bike, when I have tons to choose from that are marketed specifically for a motorcycle engine?

 

If youre running full synth and changing it at 3K miles,youre wasting money and good oil,i use full synth 15/40 and run it for 5K miles,do what you want but like i said its a waste to change it any sooner,even if you ride hard.

 

As an add, I run dino oil and a Fram filter, so I am out to lunch right there!!!!

 

Sfair I'm with you on the skeptic thing. I've learned a lot questioning common myths that nobody can seem to explain (like, synthetic oil causes leaks, or back pressure creates torque). Often I've found they have a misplaced grain of truth. They did something, got a result, and attributed a fault. The first two were okay, but they failed to properly investigate to properly attribute the fault, what they broadcast on the Internet as the issue is sometimes just a red herring! (Like, synthetic oil causes leaks. No, it didn't cause a leak, there was already a leak and synthetic oil simply gets through the worn area better. So synthetic oil leaks more in your engine, that's accurate, but it wasn't the cause of the leak)

Dino oil and a Fram huh? No wonder you're so good at fixing engines. You have to do it all the time! Hahaha, just kidding!

 

Dino oil and a Fram huh? No wonder you're so good at fixing engines. You have to do it all the time! Hahaha, just kidding!

Most people who are good at fixing engines are almost never into their own engines, because they don't break them. When you understand how they work, you know how to operate and maintain them so that they seldom need anything beyond an oil change. People who report owning a "lemon" are invariably those who don't know their machines, and then try their own ham-fisted attempts at repairing them. Just my opinion.

 

Here is how I look at it.

Purolator says don't.. They are not going to tell people not to use their product and lose sales just for the heck of it.

Too much pressure backed up which means you will not have oil flow. Most filter companies use different types of media throughout their line. Pure is no different and on this filter, The By-Pass is at Double at 17-19 compared to the pressure of Kawi Requirements of 8-11.

Purolator is not going to and, should not have to, go into some explanation other than DON'T. THAT IS ALL THAT IS NECESSARY!

Bob

 

Just to interject a theory here. What if the flow volume isn't proportional to the pressure? What if the media design, in application, collapses/compresses under increased pressures and the flow volume actually decreases with increased pressure? Just more food for thought....

 

I love it when folks give it some thought...Romans, Bear. It makes for a meaningful discussion!

I can go along with manufacturers recommendations, but when they sling nonsense my way as the reason, then everything that is written becomes suspect. We all know that manufacturers ALWAYS speak the truth, correct?
And, in my opinion, that Purolator statement was nonsense and made no sense.

Yes, there could be many reasons for the flow restriction to go up...collapsed media, plugged media, oil temperature, etc. That is why the pressure bypass is there in the first place.

If you have a turbo Buick, it is a common mod to go to a larger filter as it was stated that the filter bypass was opening at higher rpm because of media restriction. A larger filter would stop/delay that event from happening.
Now, is that more internet folklore? Maybe, but at least it makes some sense.

So, have I made anyone wonder about that one statement and its validity?

Bob: What is your source of information on bypass pressures?
Why is it lower, if that is true?

Do not even get me going on the reg/premium gas debate. There is not enough keys on my keyboard to rant about that! That is another internet item that I question the validity of.

I usually stay out of these posts as they can spin out of control very easily and end up nowhere.

 

Think of your oil pump as supplying your garden hose. If the hose ed is wide open, you get a lot of volume and little pressure. Put your thumb gradually over the end and flow decreases while pressure builds. Cover the end completely and you have Max Pressure and Zero flow. Of course, your finger will be blown off the hose from pressure. Think of that as the By-Pass in your filter.

The media restricts the flow just like your thumb. Too much restriction and flow is reduced. With a By-pass set too high, you can literally starve the engine for oil just like capping off the hose.

Bob

 

But why the difference?

 

There is ZERO sense of the size of a filter relating to flow/ by-pass pressure or anything besides the amount of media.

Purolator is my source for their filter and Kawi is the source for theirs.

Your statement: "And, in my opinion, that Purolator statement was nonsense and made no sense.".... So Purolator is going to say something so you DON'T buy a filter from them... Talk about Nonsense

Bob

 

There is ZERO sense of the size of a filter relating to flow/ by-pass pressure or anything besides the amount of media.



Bob

Take this example:

1. Make a frame 1 foot by 1 foot and mount a screen in the square. Now place a shovel of sand on top of the screen and start shaking. it wil take a certain amount of time to shake all of the sand through (flow rate)

2. Make the screen twice as big, and repeat above. Do you think that it will take the same amount of time to shake through the same amount of sand? (flow rate)