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Help diagnose starting issue

2K views 15 replies 10 participants last post by  The rider  
#1 ·
Can you guys help me diagnose a no-start issue? EN500 LTD, 2006, ~30,000 miles, newer battery.

Bike has been ridden and maintained regularly for 8 years with minimal issues. This season I went to change the fluids as I do every October. Changed the oil and filter, drained and flushed and changed the coolant. The coolant was low, below the lower level in the reserve tank (this has happened before). I noticed while doing the coolant that some of it dribbled down onto the head, possibly into the L spark plug hole? Cleaned up best I could. During this process I started it a few times to warm up, circulate, etc.

It ran just fine when I moved it from the garage to street parking. Next day, went to start it, lights came on, but there’s just a single “click” when I pressed the starter button. Lights dim down low and slowly creep back up. Same no matter how many times I tried it. Figured from starting during maintenance and only short trips to work recently, no longer rides to charge it. So I rolled it back into garage and put it on the Tender for 24 hours. The battery is new as of beginning of summer.

Next day – Tender says it’s 100% charged, but same symptoms. Lights, click, nothing. Lights dim down low and slowly creep back up.

Things on my list to check:
  • Battery connections?
  • Pull the plugs and check?
  • …?
Possibly unrelated:
Earlier this season it sat for a few weeks, and a few times after that, it was not running right. Full “choke” had a very low, slow, weak idle and it wouldn’t warm up…but turning it off and restarting usually fixed the issue, as if there was a weak connection or something somewhere. Once something settled into place, it started and ran fine. Just to be sure, I cleaned the carbs (carb cleaner all over the outside, and sprayed into throat while running) and added a can of Seafoam. That seemed to fix the issue. Not sure if this is related, or if battery connection issues could cause that behavior.

Thanks for any ideas!
 
#5 ·
Normally with the "choke" engaged, the engine idles higher as it warms up, and this is how I know to go to half-choke or no choke. When this was happening, it was on full choke and idling really low, as if not getting enough air or something. Initially I waited a while to see if it would warm up and idle higher, but it ran like that for a while. So I turned it off, wiggled the choke in and out, and tried again, and it started normally (progressively higher idle until I could disengage the choke).

I will check the battery and plugs when it's not so friggen cold, and post back.

Edit to say: The weird low-idle issue was resolved after I sprayed the hell out of the carbs with carb cleaner and used a can of seafoam in the gas tank.
 
#6 ·
I agree with the battery possibly being the culprit. You mentioned lights dim and the recover when getting the one click while trying to start. Sounds like the battery has enough charge to send current to starter, but not enough to kick over. The lights coming back is the battery recovering slightly after load put on it. START with load test first, if ok then, proceed to starter circuit or wiring. Like mentioned, almost new, doesn't mean it's good.
 
#7 ·
Carb cleaner is a very bad idea in CV carb throats. That stuff will destroy the diaphragms on contact. Check that your slide is moving free and that the diaphragm isn't torn anywhere. *Edit- This won't have anything to do with the click. That's most likely battery related.
 
#8 ·
Update: It was the battery connection! Probed the terminals and it read 12.6. Pulled it anyway. I almost never used to use dielectric grease, but earlier this summer when I changed the battery, I slathered the terminals with it. This time, when I pulled the battery up out of its holder, the positive terminal looked like a coral reef. Disconnected, scrubbed everything clean with wire brush, reconnected, bike started right up.

Is this like how the only time I ever get the flu is when I get the flu shot?

Still plan to change the plugs, they're $4 each, why not.

Thanks for the help! I will say I hate the way the battery fits (or doesn't fit) well into the holster thing on these bikes. You have to yank it up out of there by the cables and it's really difficult to get the bolts tight in the right position, where the battery will slide back down AND the seat will fit back on.
 
#10 ·
Hi LD,
  • Cable corrosion, on motorcycles, is generally a reaction between the copper and acidic battery gases or the acid itself. If you didn't buy a AGM/maintenance free (MF) battery I recommend doing so.
  • Also, I don't recommend putting Di-electric grease on battery terminals. Or directly on any terminal contact areas for that matter. I would suggest spraying the exposed cables strands between the cable sheath and the cable terminals with electrical cleaner. Once the cables are attached to the battery spray the battery terminals and cable terminals with battery terminal protectant. Again with a MF battery the corrosion should be drastically reduced. In automobiles road salt spray will cause terminal corrosion
 
#12 ·
I would suggest spraying the exposed cables strands between the cable sheath and the cable terminals with electrical cleaner.
Good tip. When you say "electrical cleaner" -- what exactly do you mean?

Yeah, I had an AGM battery before this, and it was reliable, but it only lasted a year and a half. I do maintain them. My previous acid battery (the one that came with the bike) lasted 5, so when the AGM died I went with another acid battery. Aside from the corrosion, it's been going strong so far.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Mine had similar issues when the battery went bad. Battery tender said all was good and it would start one time but the next it would just refuse. The battery wasn't even a year old at that time. I took it out checked it with my voltage meter disconnected from the system and seen it slowly dropping so the shop where I got it, tested it and one of the cells went bad. They replaced it and bam havent had an issue since. The main takeaway of this is that the tender said it was good but it most certainly was not.
 
#14 ·
The best cleaner to clear corrosion from flooded-type battery terminals is just hot water. It instantly dissolves the white/green flakes with no residue. I strongly recommend against flooded batteries on bikes because they have to vent. Those fumes are both extremely corrosive and extremely flammable(water+sulfuric acid+conductive electrodes+voltage=hydrogen). Most bikes have their starter relay in the same compartment as the battery, and you are sitting directly on it. If you've never seen a flooded battery explode from overcharging or fume ignition, it's a sight. I don't want to sit one.

I recently had to buy a battery for a VN800 and went with lithium. They are less than 100 bucks, have essentially no self discharging during storage, can be charged 3 times faster than Pb and provide 3 times the starting amps. They also last much longer, especially if the bike doesn't get ridden much or for long periods of time. I went with a YTX7 equivalent, 3 sizes smaller than the YTX14 that the bike calls for. It still has 400 cranking amps but it weighs nothing and sits in the battery box perfectly(albeit shorter than the original). That battery turns over my 800 faster than any AGM does. I stuck it in my 2300cc Triumph with high compression and it spun that over with no problem or voltage drop.
 
#15 ·
Hey LD,
  • CRC makes a battery specific cleaner and protectant. Available at AutoZone or ordered on-line through WalMart.
  • I don't use contact cleaner on batteries because the cable terminals are not the same dissimilar metal combination. Lead oxidizes into a whitish color and copper green. When you have battery terminal corrosion with both colors then you know that the problem has worked it's way into the cable strands. In reality, the cables should be replaced as they would be creating excess resistance to the starter circuit making starting difficult and requiring more power from the battery to start the engine. This excess resistance can also cause damage to the starter over time.
  • I have had a single AGM battery in my GSXR now from 2015. I suggest when buying an AGM battery that you purchase one that YOU can set up and charge at home. Proper set up, and of most importance includes the correct acid absorption time, is vital to AGM life. MANY dealerships have parts people setting up batteries and the set up process gets neglected because someone is in a hurry to answer phones or greet customers. AGM battery setup is a DIY for best results process.
 
#16 ·
You can use several wraps of fishing line wrapped around the battery to make it easier to pull up next time you have it out..Weed eater line will work as well but just one wrap is all you get as the line actually makes it fit a little tighter in the box...I have used both and like the weed eater line better