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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
Cpt.:

Yup...but thanks for bringing it up as someone just quickly scanning this thread might have missed it.

in my original post I said "You could then add about a 4.75A additional load - but note the accessory circuit has a 5A fuse and I'm already using about 1.8A of that fuse rating to power driving lights and a GPI".

I originally put my Skene P3 lights on the accessory circuit (see thread on that), but later moved them to the horn/brake/tail light circuit for this purpose. In reality a P3 setup with 2 LED modules only draws about 330mA (4W) but now it's removed from the 5A acc circuit.

If I install heated grips I'll pull that power off the battery with a separately-fused circuit (all grip kits come w/a fuse) since I know the total wattage of all mods - both on and off the acc circuit - is below the alternator overhead gained by the total LED conversion. The grips will be controlled by a relay fired by the acc circuit (so it shuts off with the key) and the relay coil load (on the accy circuit to keep the relay held in) is only about 3W.

One more point - all the current (amp draw) calculations I did on this project are based on 12.0 VDC - not 12.6V or 13.0V as some folks do. I prefer to use a pessimistic number because at a known load as voltage decreases the current increases (but the wattage stays the same). This Is a reasonable expectation for system voltage on a bike that is running...with a well-charged battery.


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Ah....Wire direct. I forgot that one. :)
My brainset was fixed on using the Aux outlets because I'm running out of room.
I already have 2 extra separate harnesses added in. They came with the lights and Wolo Big Bad Max airhorn I bought.
They're tidy enough now but there's not alot of comfortable room left for much else.
My LED headlamp arrived and fitted up okay. I took a punt with the P7 through Ali Express. Very nice piece of equipment.
I had to re-route some wiring behind the OEM headlight body to make room for the bulky heat sink.
I only wish I had planned all the additional harness wiring with an intelligent schematic to allow multiple high draw devices direct to battery.
Trouble is I don't have enough electronic smarts and a major case of 20/20 hindsight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 · (Edited)
Have you considered a Fuzeblock FZ-1?:
http://www.fuzeblocks.com


I've used them in other bikes with good results, and you can select which circuits are switched by the integral relay.

OR look at the Metripak MP280-series for compact fuse/relay block design with 3 or 4 fused circuits, or 2 fused circuits and a relay:
http://www.cycleterminal.com/mp280-fuse-box.html




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Love it!
Looks like an analogue version of the m-unit
From what I gather you simply wire the top +12vDC and GND directly to the battery and +VT to an ignition switched positive like an AUX red outlet?
Then connect various parts to the connections down the sides and bridge each circuit with appropriate fuse?

It's been a bit of learning process along the way fitting the parts I have.
When I was wiring in my lights I tried using the supplied air horn harness because I couldn't find any other ignition switched power lines to run the lights relay.
I tapped into the powered side of the air horn circuit, switched on ignition and lights came on as planned. I thought I'd done it until the I tested the horn and it wouldn't stop (neither did the ringing in my ears after I cut the power).

I eventually waited until the OEM relay arrived to use the AUX power for hot switch but it really bugged me needing a relay for each circuit.
Do you think I'll encounter the same problem if I tried wiring the horn and lights to the same relay on the FZ-1?
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
You are correct:


Once plus +VT is applied (assumedly you would pick this off of +12 V from your accessory circuit so it comes on with the key) the relay is engaged,all circuits with fuses in the "switched "position will have power. Conversely, all circuits with fuses in the "constant +12" position always have power from the battery.

One other trick I use with mini-fuse distribution blocks is I buy the assortment of fuses that have the blown-fuse indicator (red LED); makes quick work of finding a blown fuse.
I believe Harbor Freight used to sell these, but now I get them off eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/401164388283

30 PC ATM MINI FUSE SELF-TESTING WITH LED ASSORTMENT KIT WITH BOX

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Discussion Starter · #26 · (Edited)
When I was wiring in my lights I tried using the supplied air horn harness because I couldn't find any other ignition switched power lines to run the lights relay.

I tapped into the powered side of the air horn circuit, switched on ignition and lights came on as planned. I thought I'd done it until the I tested the horn and it wouldn't stop (neither did the ringing in my ears after I cut the power).



I eventually waited until the OEM relay arrived to use the AUX power for hot switch but it really bugged me needing a relay for each circuit.

Do you think I'll encounter the same problem if I tried wiring the horn and lights to the same relay on the FZ-1?

OK... I have to ask because I'm unsure of exactly what you did:

To start with, did your horn wiring circuit harness look something like this? Forget that it says Vespa on this diagram, it will do for the purpose of this discussion:


If this is what your horn wiring circuit looks like, exactly where did you attach the tap to power your lighting circuit?


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It's pretty full on but here goes.
Air Horn circuit

Fog Light circuit

Fog light relay

I tried tapping 86 thin red wire from the light relay into the positive wiring (85 or 86) from the airhorn circuit because at the time I had no OEM AUX relay.
Massive fail.
I had problems tapping the thin white wire from the fog light volume control into the headlight aswell. H4 globes disable low beam when high beam is on so I had to tap into the AUX power outlet behind the light once OEM relay arrived.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 · (Edited)
Ok...excellent and complete answer! Easy to follow your work, thank you.

My initial thoughts (more may follow):

1. Assuming you are using a Stebel Nautilus horn, the stated steady-state current draw is "less than 18 amps"; inrush current when first engaged is momentarily higher...
2. Assuming you are using Clearwater Glendas, they are rated at a max current of 24W EACH...with two of these on high you have about a 4-amp draw.
3. The relay for the horn is likely rated at 20 or 30 amps...for a reason; this relay is likely meant to ONLY handle that load, and you can come close to 30 amps inrush when tapping the horn button. Drawing much more could weld your contacts shut. Not good, but you're not powering the lights thru the main relay contacts anyway...so not a factor.

However... the reason your setup didn't work is that the 'volume control' for Clearwater lights isn't a simple variable resistor, but a PWM (pulse-width-modulated) controller. As you increase (or decrease) relative brightness the controller is sending a higher (or lower) duty cycle of pulses to the lights.

That being said the PWM controller was feeding back into the horn relay coil and keeping it closed...it's not enough to close the relay on its own, but enough to keep it closed.

The horn/running light/brake light circuit is separate from the Aux circuit, so by separating them you solved the problem.

I know this because I've seen this before, and spoken to the engineers at Clearwater...the brothers of one of their engineers went to the same high school as my wife. Small world.

(BTW...when you installed the Stebel horn did you also install the optional air pickup tube and route it up out of road spray like we do on other bikes?)

Does this explanation make sense?


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1. Assuming you are using a Stebel Nautilus horn, the stated steady-state current draw is "less than 18 amps"
2. Assuming you are using Clearwater Glendas, they are rated at a max current of 24W EACH...with two of these on high you have about a 4-amp draw.
3. The relay for the horn is likely rated at 20 or 30 amps...

Does this explanation make sense?
Thanks Range'
Yup makes total sense now.
As per you notes,
1. I have a Wolo Bag Bad Max. Very similar to the Nautilus but I read alot of bad reviews about Stebels failing prematurely. Some even arriving dead in the box. Mine draws 17A so you're in the right ballpark.
2.Glenda's only draw 25W total on high beam for both combined. Scroll half way down the Glenda/Darla FAQ's
3. The horn circuit is as per the sketch I attached.

Regarding the airhorn intake I don't have a tube but instead I side mounted mine on the L/H side of the bike next to the engine head similar to this. It tucked in nicely just inside the frame rather than being exposed out the front where the OEM horn is. I could already see enough damage to my radiator from the undersized front guard and didn't want the airhorn sucking in water or dirt.

Thanks again for the advice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 · (Edited)
Good morning, Capt. ☕:

Yes...D1 & D2 are diodes.

The diodes are for relay spike suppression - pretty common in well-designed circuits. When a relay energizes (and especially de-energizes) there can be a small surge of current in the system...this can play havoc with some bike systems (usually CANbus, like BMWs).

For a lower-cost solution (since you're down under) consider using something like a Centech AP-1:


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Centech-...hash=item43c71eae39:m:mYuPXmw3dXOPfiNyElCk6ZQ


The AP-1 is just a small fused distribution block that is very sturdy.

I see on the Aussie eBay site they're available for about AU $75; then you can fab up a harness and fused power feeder relay that can be sourced locally. Since the tray where this would be placed is next to the battery the heavier power feeder wiring would be short and simple.

Another possibility would be to design one (depending on your number of circuits and total amp draw) out of one or two of the Metripak MP280 hardware sets (look up in this thread for the links); this can include the relay. It would be be small and weatherproof. Dunno if that stuff is locally available in Australia tho'...

The Metripak solution looks so cool I'm considering ordering some just to play with

Does that help?



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I'm sure this is a newbie, very basic question, so bear with me... I have read your threads on the accessory power calculation and on the Skene P3s (awesome!), and I'm wondering:
-What is the wattage for the OEM power outlet for the Vulcan S? (I already have that and the gear indicator [GPI?] installed)
-I'm getting the idea that if an accessory is connected directly to the battery (eg, heated vest), it is not part of the calculation for power draw?, but that just seems wrong. The heated vest I just bought is labelled at 49 watts, 3.6 amps, and its battery harness has a 10-amp fuse inline. The dealer that sold me the bike and the vest say I shouldn't have any problem, but... am I going to have to give up the heated vest unless I make a bunch of other mods to the bike to save power?
Thanks for your help!
Jamie
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 · (Edited)
I'm sure this is a newbie, very basic question, so bear with me... I have read your threads on the accessory power calculation and on the Skene P3s (awesome!), and I'm wondering:

-What is the wattage for the OEM power outlet for the Vulcan S? (I already have that and the gear indicator [GPI?] installed)

-I'm getting the idea that if an accessory is connected directly to the battery (eg, heated vest), it is not part of the calculation for power draw?, but that just seems wrong. The heated vest I just bought is labelled at 49 watts, 3.6 amps, and its battery harness has a 10-amp fuse inline. The dealer that sold me the bike and the vest say I shouldn't have any problem, but... am I going to have to give up the heated vest unless I make a bunch of other mods to the bike to save power?

Thanks for your help!

Jamie

Jamie:

There is no specified wattage for the OEM accessory power socket...just like an automotive accessory socket, it attempts to draw whatever load you plug in...

You are correct that a draw (load) if taken directly off the battery is not taken into account against the accessory circuit (5A max, limited by that fuse)....BUT the Vulcan S has a total electrical system limitation of 25W over and above the bone-stock configuration without any accessories. Let's face facts - Kawasaki put a weenie of an alternator in this bike, and this limitation applies to anything added to the motorcycle regardless of where it's attached.

This is the note included in the Kawasaki installation instructions for the power outlet:


If all you have is the GPI and an accessory socket on the OEM accessory circuit, the socket could be loaded up to about 4.5A without blowing the fuse...but again, exceeding a total load of 25W (25W-2.6W for the GPI = 22.4W) could mean that your alternator will not have sufficient power to keep your battery charged with the engine running if you present a load to the power socket of more than about 1.6 A.

Now let's examine the situation where you have a new heated vest you want to hook up...

You say that the maximum load it presents is 3.6A, or about 50W; if you don't do something to lower other electrical loads in the motorcycle, using your vest will be exceed the maximum allowable wattage you can draw and the bike will not charge the battery.

You may be able to use the vest by converting your turn signal lamps, flasher relay, the license plate and city lights to LED...this will save you a considerable amount of power...and it can be done for about $50.

The conversion saves you 34.4W.. and boost the total available system power to (25W+34.4W) 59.4W...You can then run either your heated vest at full power, or use something plugged into your accessory socket that draws a little over 4A.

BTW... The wiring that came with the vest has a 10A fuse because of the load and wire size determined by the vest manufacturer. The purpose of a fuse is, of course, to act as a safety device and keep the wiring from catching on fire.

You can hook up your vest to the accessory circuit as long as the total accessory circuit load does not exceed the 5A limitation imposed by the accessory circuit fuse...but you need to do some kind of power-saving mod.

You can also hook the vest up directly to the battery...with an inline fuse...but again you have to do a power-saving mod, and neglecting to shut it off when the engine isn't running will leave you with a dead battery in short order.

Also feel free to PM me if you want to ask question offline...

Ride safe!




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Thanks, Rangemaster. Since the heated vest gets unplugged to walk away from the bike, as long I don't stay on the bike, warm & cozy, while it's shut off (while waiting in a ferry line-up, for example), there should be limited risk of running the battery down that way. But sounds like I should convert my lighting to LED to be sure my battery stays charged up. I mainly got the accessory power socket to run my GPS, and I gather those draw minimal power, so I think the accessory circuit should be okay. The only other power-related mods I was hoping to do was add some rear running/brake lights (like the Skene P3s, or a lighted license plate frame), and maybe some front lights for a wider profile to oncoming traffic.
Thanks for the offer re PM... I may take you up on that as I dig into this some more... I don't want to mess up!
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
No problem...sounds like you have some fun projects coming up.

BTW, the Skene P3 system (with a single pair of LED modules) only draws about 330mA (4W) on high power, less when acting as a running light.


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-I'm getting the idea that if an accessory is connected directly to the battery (eg, heated vest), it is not part of the calculation for power draw?, but that just seems wrong. The heated vest I just bought is labelled at 49 watts, 3.6 amps, and its battery harness has a 10-amp fuse inline...
Jamie
Might be easier to get one of those Li-Ion battery packs for your jacket and just keep it in your pocket.
I personally don't like the idea of wiring myself to the bike.
I'm sure I'd get off and walk away without unplugging at least once. Pull the bike over and make a right ass of myself.........:laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 · (Edited)
Cpt:

I'm with you on that one...been there, (almost) done that. I have, however, added a HitAir vest to my riding gear this year so a 'lanyard check' is now a natural thing...but the lanyard is a coiled Kevlar cord that takes about 65 lbs. of force to activate.

BT intercoms are standard for us, as I HATE the hardwired connection on our Harley.


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I'm not familiar with the Vulcan S mode's alternator system so forgive me if I'm off base here, but if it's the permanent magnet type of alternator found on many motorcycles, it produces a fixed amount of power (for a given RPM). Any generated power, over what's used by the original bike systems, is simply 'shunted' to ground, typically through the motorcycles Regulator/Rectifier. So on a motorcycle with this type of alternator, if additional power is 'freed up', say with substituting low power LED lamps in place of original incandescent lamps, the excess power that is 'freed up' is shunted to ground unless it's fed to additional accessories. The problem is any time you're not using the accessories, the extra power being shunted is going to create additional heat (over the original design capacity) somewhere - typically in the Regulator/Rectifier which can shorten it's life.

PS: Cars (and some motorcycles) get around the above problem by using a electrically powered magnetic field instead of fixed magnets (referred to as an 'excited field' alternator - I think). The main advantage of such a system is the power output of the alternator is continuously variable and controlled by the current fed to the field winding i.e. rotor. So if the draw is reduced, say by switching to LED's, the system adjusts by reducing available output power.

The disadvantage is that excited field alternators are more complex, (Likely more expensive to produce) and the have wear components i.e. brushes that need to be replaced. In addition, on a motorcycle, which can sustain very high engine RPMs (compared to a typically automobile engine), the high RPM's can be hard on the rotor windings causing rotor failure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 · (Edited)
While you are correct concerning some motorcycle electrical designs, it is not a concern in this case with the design of Vulcan S in applying these mods...

Consider:
1. The inadequate (compared to many bikes) limitation of only 25W of accessories in an unmodified system.
2. In the headlight circuit the loads are 55/60 watts for the headlight, reduced to 20/40W.
3. In the turn signal circuit the load is 40W (intermittent, as the max load is only presented with the 4-way flashers on), now reduced to 13.6W...
3. In the city light/license plate light circuit the continuous load is 10W, now 2W.

So....a stock Vulcan consumes 65W continuous on the circuits in question, with a peak of 110W with high beam on and 4-way flashers; it is now 46W continuous, with a peak of 55.6W...slightly less than stock continuous load.

The alternator must be able to provide this power, plus power for the ECU, fuel injection pump, ignition, cooling/fan circuit, brake light, instrumentation, ABS system and the horn. AND charge the battery.

Add to this the measly 25W of allowable 'accessory' power...and these mods present less of a percentage of total continuous alternator load.

The way I set up these mods means with the 'normal' running load of LED low-beam, 2 each 10W driving lights, LED city/license plate lights, aftermarket GPI and Skene P3's's totals 48 watts...this is well within the margins for reliable operation when coupled with other loads...and with the heated grips on the normal continuous load is 85W...the same as OEM normal lighting load - with OEM accessories (GPI/Kaw driving lights).

If you really want to cook an alternator, present too much of a load...but when I get a chance (just for my own edification) I may try some IR gun readings of the rectifier/regulator surface temperature under different loads.

Ride safe! (and do the math)

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Might be easier to get one of those Li-Ion battery packs for your jacket and just keep it in your pocket.
I personally don't like the idea of wiring myself to the bike.
I'm sure I'd get off and walk away without unplugging at least once. Pull the bike over and make a right ass of myself.........:laugh:
Yeah, I've been worried about that, too. I looked at battery-powered vests (Venture, I think?), but apparently they don't generate enough heat for riding, being meant more for watching your kids play soccer or hockey. Thanks for the suggestion about the battery pack... I'll look into it.
 
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