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Discussion Starter #1



As you can see by the numbers, they had to richen things up pretty good. It will be interesting to see what happens to my mileage...
 

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That torque seems very low around 3000 rpm...Most dyno runs that I have seen are around 130-150 ftlbs yours should be atleast around 135ish @ 2500-3000 with those numbers...Plus I think you might be holding the motor back by not changing the stck pipes....You gave it the ability to suck more air but didnt give it the ability to get rid of the air with pipes...So I think you gain some hp with some pipes....Ive never dynoed at 4500' either so I could be way off here also....
 

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From everything i have read the stock pipes give the best numbers on the dyno. Im guessing your a little low because your altitude. I wonder if running 92 would make a difference. Thanks for posting! Was this done recently or Jan 2010?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I forgot that I had never updated this post. Yes it was done in January 2010, but in the fall of 2010 I removed the Baron BAK and put a Thunder Tornado on it and instantly I noticed a difference with a map downloaded off the dynojet site. I took it in and put it on the dyno again, and with some small changes to the dynojet map it was putting out 100hp and 120 ft lbs torque and runs much better. I am not much of a BAK fan anymore. I still run Regular gas to this day, and for the heat it was generating on the dyno there was not any pre-ignition what so ever. Premium doesn't give you more performance even though alot of people believe it does, and those people should do some research but when I say that the reply is the manufacturer tells me I have to run it which I think is a blind and uneducated point of view. My altitude is a factor and when I was out at the coast this past summer I did put mid grade in it. I have an ST1300 as well now and it runs just fine on regular. I am about 270 lbs and can stay with the other lighter guys on their ST's so I don't believe I am losing any performance. I am not cheap, so I am not trying to save money on fuel, but I do have my reasons not to run Premium. I do get slightly better mileage on premium, but there are reasons for that, which brings me back to doing some research and education.
 

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Dyno

I will be dynoing my v2k this week hopefully was supposed to today but the dyno computer died as my bike was on it..never even got it started...The only extras are .britt midlength drag pipes k&n intake and pc3 ..Not sure about the pipes but thought I would be the test dummy for them...Everything feels good on the road the pipes are thin but if they make power They are staying on...We will see...If the pipes suck then the stock ones will go on and we will do it again..
 

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I forgot that I had never updated this post. Yes it was done in January 2010, but in the fall of 2010 I removed the Baron BAK and put a Thunder Tornado on it and instantly I noticed a difference with a map downloaded off the dynojet site. I took it in and put it on the dyno again, and with some small changes to the dynojet map it was putting out 100hp and 120 ft lbs torque and runs much better. I am not much of a BAK fan anymore. I still run Regular gas to this day, and for the heat it was generating on the dyno there was not any pre-ignition what so ever. Premium doesn't give you more performance even though alot of people believe it does, and those people should do some research but when I say that the reply is the manufacturer tells me I have to run it which I think is a blind and uneducated point of view. My altitude is a factor and when I was out at the coast this past summer I did put mid grade in it. I have an ST1300 as well now and it runs just fine on regular. I am about 270 lbs and can stay with the other lighter guys on their ST's so I don't believe I am losing any performance. I am not cheap, so I am not trying to save money on fuel, but I do have my reasons not to run Premium. I do get slightly better mileage on premium, but there are reasons for that, which brings me back to doing some research and education.
DAMMIT! I just ordered a BAK. Does it really matter if we are all pushing close to a 100HP on two wheels? Im getting mine done , but not for a while, she is going in storage for 6 months while im at school :mad: Thanks again boss hog for posting, im 220 and quickly gaining on your 270 lol
 

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Premium doesn't give you more performance even though alot of people believe it does, and those people should do some research but when I say that the reply is the manufacturer tells me I have to run it which I think is a blind and uneducated point of view. My altitude is a factor and when I was out at the coast this past summer I did put mid grade in it. I have an ST1300 as well now and it runs just fine on regular. I am about 270 lbs and can stay with the other lighter guys on their ST's so I don't believe I am losing any performance. I am not cheap, so I am not trying to save money on fuel, but I do have my reasons not to run Premium. I do get slightly better mileage on premium, but there are reasons for that, which brings me back to doing some research and education.
I'm sure there are many folks that would appreciate an education about premium fuel and octane rather than insinuations of widespread ignorance.
 

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i think it has something to with compression ratio. One of my older cars had 10:1 and if i ran 87 it would just lose MPG? I could use some schooling. Come on experts, chime in
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The VN2000 recommends premium with a compression ratio of 9.5 to 1....
The Honda ST1300 recommends premium with a compression ratio of 10.5 to 1
The Yamaha FJR1300 recommends Regular with a compression ratio of 10.5 to 1

Figure this one out.... There is lots of info out there if you search for it....
 

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Poncho...You are correct about the octane...My Partner and I have a Dyno Jet snowmobile track dyno, we setup race sleds for grass and ice and have found that to much octane can kill the horsepower, it burns to slow even with bumping up the timing we have lost horsepower...What I would like to see is a dyno test that the operator can move the timing around a little to see where the motor is happy. I feel that the test should start with everything stock, run 91 octane, advance the timing until power falls off with the correct air/fuel ratio and use this as a baseline, then put on the aftermarket products and test away...hope this helps, Allen.
PS: If the bike is happy with 87 octane then Kawasaki has this bike detuned from the start, I bet that correct setup to run 91 octane will show an increase in torque and horsepower.
 

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The VN2000 recommends premium with a compression ratio of 9.5 to 1....
The Honda ST1300 recommends premium with a compression ratio of 10.5 to 1
The Yamaha FJR1300 recommends Regular with a compression ratio of 10.5 to 1

Figure this one out.... There is lots of info out there if you search for it....
There are soooo many variables when it comes to compression ratios, fuel requirements, detonation, etc. Compression ratio is only one player among many including combustion chamber shape, valve timing, ignition timing, cylinder bore, etc, etc, etc. It makes comparisons between engines impossible.
The new Mazda's run 13 to 1 CR on regular fuel!
 

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I have read a lot about this over the years back when I was into modifying cars.

As has been said, the higher octane rating is used to prevent detonation (pinging). This is when the mixture detonates in the combustion chamber at a time when it is not supposed to. Usually before the spark plug fires.
Pre detonation is a bad thing and can damage internals. It puts too much pressure and forces on the pistons, heads, valves, etc.

If your engine can use lower octane without pinging, then use it and save yourself some $$.

If your manufacturer recommends higher octane, I suggest you use it though as you may not hear the pinging. Especially if you are running loud pipes, etc.

I saw some dyno tests some years back on a big block that they were doing all sorts of tests on. One thing they did was try low octane just to see what it would do. The horsepower went up quite a bit on the lower octane.

As said, there are many things that determine what will cause them to ping. Compression is part, timing is part, heat is another part.

My V2K pings under load with anything lower than 91. Sometimes it pings with 91 when it's real hot outside and is under load. Usually runs fine with it though. It has never pinged with 93.

Just don't fall into the trap that "Premium" makes your car or bike run better just because its more expensive. Placebo effect there.
 

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I generally subscribe to the theory that you should run the lowest octane that does not result in pinging. Running higher octane will not increase power (or as posted, maybe lower it).

However, I wonder if there is an exception to the rule - Engines equipped with EFI/ignition and knock sensors. If running with less than optimum octane the knock sensor will detect pinging and tell the computer to retard ignition timing. Retarded timing can cause a loss of power (but less ping). Raising the octane to the point the sensor is not requesting retardation could then result in increased power. Going higher than that threshold would not be helpful.
Yes???

BTW, not having a timing light at the time, I used to set the distributor timing on my old Dodge 360 van motor by ear. Drive under various conditions with the dog house off and distributor slightly loose. Set the dist. to just below the ping point.

Woody
 

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Discussion Starter #14
These bikes from factory are tuned so lean to meet emission control standards. This causes higher combustion chamber temperature which is one of the causes of detonation. Putting a power commander and tuning up the mixture gets rid of that problem. That is why I put it on the dyno and put regular in it. It is now tuned to run that fuel. I would never put regular in a Harley, even if it was tuned on the dyno. They are air cooled and run alot hotter. Like I said, when I get closer to sea level I did put mid grade in it. Sorry if I got a little abrupt with my post earlier, but this subject on fuel always bothers me because so many repeat what others say without doing a little research to make sure it is true. Premium.... that must mean faster....
 

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I generally subscribe to the theory that you should run the lowest octane that does not result in pinging. Running higher octane will not increase power (or as posted, maybe lower it).

However, I wonder if there is an exception to the rule - Engines equipped with EFI/ignition and knock sensors. If running with less than optimum octane the knock sensor will detect pinging and tell the computer to retard ignition timing. Retarded timing can cause a loss of power (but less ping). Raising the octane to the point the sensor is not requesting retardation could then result in increased power. Going higher than that threshold would not be helpful.
Yes???

BTW, not having a timing light at the time, I used to set the distributor timing on my old Dodge 360 van motor by ear. Drive under various conditions with the dog house off and distributor slightly loose. Set the dist. to just below the ping point.

Woody
Timing just before ping may not give you the best results. Manufacturers specify initial and full advance timing for highest combustion chamber pressure to occur at a specific crank angle ATDC. This setting gives the most power, best mileage and least vibration. These specs vary according to engine design... that is why timing specs vary for different engines.
The above statement is overruled by any modifications due to emmision reasons.
Sometimes timing for best vacuum reading works out better.
 

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This thread has officially been hijacked by the Timing and octane thread..... :0
Just glad i was not blamed, what is it with bikers and flaming ? I just dont get it....OK everyone lets just talk about your dyno results k, no more questions on how you got em ,where you got em , what kinda gas you got em on, what altitude you were at,the cost of 93 octane, ping and pang, OR the State drink of TX ....Bulldozer, from now on i am a model of political correctness.
 

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is that a french bikini yor wearin as you strut the pc kat walk? might wanna get a waxjob on all that hair stiken out everwhere!:eek:
YIKES , how did Ponch know i had one of them boyzillions....? Youall just dont know how good i look in my skimpys... Bulldozer, Now all you female readers keep yer thoughts outa tha gutter, you cant have me, Mrs. Bulldozer says you can only dream of me on the runway....Cause she says ifn wifes everywhere start moanin Bulldozer Bulldozer in the heat of vroom vroom NObody will ever get a dyno again..
 

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Glad to see you guys know each other that well....lol.... OK OK dyno numbers and how you got them... but ping and pang aren't numbers so lets leave them out....lol....
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Yeh but when you think about it, I started this thread, I was the one who hijacked it by a comment that maybe I could have gotten more out of my bike on the dyno if I had put premium in it, which for the most part I think was educating as the discussion went on. I think there will be more people doing some research on this and creating their own opinions, and I hope entering their thoughts in this thread, which I think is better than just repeating what some one else said. When I first got my VN2000 I asked what everyone was running for fuel and why. I got back for the most part that everyone was running premium because that is what the manufacturer recommended. I think the manufacturers are just covering their butts. I wished I would have had the money and the time that day to drain the regular out and put premium in it, just to see what the difference on the dyno was and it would be nice to have one do that test some day and see what their results would be. Anyway out of all the dynos I have seen on the web for the VN2000 I get to be the first with regular...... Now lets stay on this discussion.... Premium verses regular!!!
 
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