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Discussion Starter #1
I have been torn over getting the Power Commander V or the Cobra FI2000 Power Pro.*

I really like the idea of the Cobra auto tuning itself 80 times a second. I don't plan on going outrageous with performance mods. I am looking to do the V&H slip ons, A K&N filter for now with stock air box until at some point I put an aftermarket air cleaner.*

With the PCV I have to worry about getting the mapping just right, and having to take it to a Dyno tuner which will set me back about another $325.00. And if I want to add something down the line, the Dyno tuning will be worthless. Any input on experiences with the PCV and the Cobra Power Pro will be appreciated. I am looking to pull the trigger right before Xmas. Thanks guys.

2014 Vaquero ABS SE
Candy Burnt Orange
 

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There is a similar thread running on this.

Bottom line, if you want it perfect, then it has to be PCV and Dyno.

Auto tune modules, where I am at least, have a pretty bad reputation for being sketchy. They are a great idea, but if they did what they were supposed to do, then all the race teams would be using them, and no one would bother with a dyno map any more, however in reality, from the people I've spoken to when researching this, they leave a lot to be desired.
 

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BOTTOM LINE...Cobra claims the power pro can re-tune itself to accommodate any and all mods, present and future and that is basically IMPOSSIBLE!!! The p/pro has absolutely NO CAPABILITY to analyze the air/fuel ratio (which can only be done by sampling the exhaust gas with a wide band sensor) It is just an electronic accelerator pump. Few months back I did a 1700 that came in with a p/pro installed. It was running extremely rich indicating the unit was supplying the engine with too much fuel. With the addition of a BAK, PCV w/ignition and a custom map on my dyno, he gained a lot of mpg !!!

The PCV w/ignition timing allows me full access to altering the a/f ration and foolin around with the ignition timing (the cobra unit has no capability to alter ignition timing). With the PCV's range of adjustments in a/f ratio, also being able to tune each cylinder individually, and ignition timing alterations you will not get a better, smoother runnin skoot that can also get great mpg.

The different versions of the Power Commanders have had me spoiled for years, the PCV is the best.

RACNRAY
 

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A fuel processor is in my future, as well. I've no personal experience to share, but from the research of this forum, there is a manufacturer called EJK. It seems those who have tried it like it. It is adjustable, but no dyno is needed. It seems more user friendly to set up. Probably not quite as precision as a PCV, but still very helpful. Do a search here or check out their site.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I hear you Ray. I tend to agree with you. I think I am going with the PCV fuel only. I am not going to mess with ignition timing. I think AFR is more important for my application. I just want the bike running optimum with the minimal mods I am doing. If I get an intake, I am sure I can find someone with a map that will get me in the ballpark without having to get the bike flogged on the dyno for an extra pony.

If I am not satisfied I will run down to your shop and have you dial it in on the dyno.
 

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I hear you Ray. I tend to agree with you. I think I am going with the PCV fuel only. I am not going to mess with ignition timing. I think AFR is more important for my application. I just want the bike running optimum with the minimal mods I am doing. If I get an intake, I am sure I can find someone with a map that will get me in the ballpark without having to get the bike flogged on the dyno for an extra pony.

If I am not satisfied I will run down to your shop and have you dial it in on the dyno.
TRUE...the a/f ratio is always the most important aspect of fine tuning an engine, BUT.....

Get the PCV W/ignition timing capability anyway, it is only bout $20.00 more. You DO NOT have to play with timing at all, leave the ignition map alone, but believe me spending that extra $20.00 to have the option of messin with ignition timing at a later date is well worth it.

The way these 1700's respond to timing is very noticeable in overall driving quality.

RACNRAY
 

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My '09 Nomad has the V&H pipes, an Alley Cat air cleaner, and USED TO have the Powrpro. Under hard acceleration it was fine, but in a normal, varied ride it was absolute rubbish! The worse bit, for me, was when slowing on the approach to a bend or roundabout and then accelerating into the turn....it became a lottery as to whether or not I'd actually get that acceleration and if so, when!

I now have the PCV and have a obtained a couple of maps from a guy on here called David Sheek. One is balls-out performance and one is a little leaner for more economical riding. She is a different bike, my friend! I can stick it in 6th gear and still accelerate from 30mph without having to change down. Corners are an absolute joy, and I have so much more confidence in the bike!

Ultimately it's your choice, but having tried both, my choice is clear!

Good luck!
 

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I am glad to at last have someone agree with me, especially Ray as he really knows his stuff.
As far as the timing thing; I know these engines run hot, and have an increased risk of ping when hot. The timing is retarded a lot when engine temp goes up, which saps power. I personally would concentrate on having it run cooler rather than playing with the timing, but that's only my view. I would however pay the extra 20 bucks in case I needed to adjust timing in the future.
Most important take it to someone with a dyno that knows what they're doing.
 

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go the pcv with ign you will never look back
you can also add more to it if you want in the future ,you can also add auto tune with a wide band sensor and gear mapping in the future all of which is easy to do '
the pcv is very user friendly if you like to tinker yourself
 

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Well dang, there's nothing else I can add.:p
They're all right on.
Let me know if you need any help.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks David. I am going pretty mild with the mods compared to my 1500 classic. On the Vaq I am just going for a K&N filter upgrade and V&H slip ons. Going to close off the AIS hose as I did with my 1500 when I did the full exhaust and hyper charger. Never had a decel pop, even 10 years later the 1500 runs better than new. I may hit you up for some maps if I go with the PCV. The bike will likely never leave FL except maybe to GA so I think one map and done will likely be the case. I was looking under the tank of the Vaq with a flashlight and with the tank propped up a bit I can get to the ignition coils and injectors pretty easily. Only 2 things I like about the EJK over the PCV is no hacking into stock wiring, and no computer necessary, so adjustments can be made on the road if need be. That being said, I like the precision of the PCV. I have always had carbed bikes, so much easier to work with, but I was fooling around with the dynojet software and downloaded a map off the site. It does not seem like rocket science to load maps. :D
 

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Fuel injection has spoiled me, well both Mark and I. The ease and phenomenal accuracy of tuning an engine is extremely hard to come by on a carbed engine, actually impossible.

The BESTEST thing bout FI is......NO GAS SMELL!!!

RACNRAY

BTW...a map made in Florida will work in other areas as all FI systems have an ability (to a certain extent) to compensate for different weather and altitude conditions, that is built into all FI systems, has to be.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ray , besides closing off the AIS, in the event I get decel pop when I do the slip ons, will adding fuel in small increments in the zero column above idle RPM make it go away? My carbed bike never popped a day in her life after I closed off the AIS and got the jetting correct.
 

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Ray , besides closing off the AIS, in the event I get decel pop when I do the slip ons, will adding fuel in small increments in the zero column above idle RPM make it go away? My carbed bike never popped a day in her life after I closed off the AIS and got the jetting correct.
Ur other bike also had 2 plugs per cylinder which goes A LONG WAY to improve combustion and helps to eliminate popping on decel. Kawi dropped the ball with the 1700 and went with a single plug, NOT the best of ideas with such a large bore dia.

One other aspect of these 1700's is the well documented occurrence of intake vacuum leaks between the throttle body and intake manifold. ALL 1700's have the potential for vacuum leaks due to how the t/b mates to the manifold. I recommend also getting the t/b gasket from Thunder Mfg and installing it. You may not have vacuum leaks now, but eventually you will have some percentage of leakage. Intake vacuum leaks are responsible for popping on decel, poor off idle response, loss of mpg, etc. Many 1700 owners have done this and reported improvements in running quality and a reduction in decel popping. My policy is that I do not tune a 1700 unless it has the gasket already or we install it b4 tuning.


RACNRAY
 

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Thanks David. I am going pretty mild with the mods compared to my 1500 classic. On the Vaq I am just going for a K&N filter upgrade and V&H slip ons. Going to close off the AIS hose as I did with my 1500 when I did the full exhaust and hyper charger. Never had a decel pop, even 10 years later the 1500 runs better than new. I may hit you up for some maps if I go with the PCV. The bike will likely never leave FL except maybe to GA so I think one map and done will likely be the case. I was looking under the tank of the Vaq with a flashlight and with the tank propped up a bit I can get to the ignition coils and injectors pretty easily. Only 2 things I like about the EJK over the PCV is no hacking into stock wiring, and no computer necessary, so adjustments can be made on the road if need be. That being said, I like the precision of the PCV. I have always had carbed bikes, so much easier to work with, but I was fooling around with the dynojet software and downloaded a map off the site. It does not seem like rocket science to load maps. :D
OK I was just going by what you said in post #5. Sounded like you were getting the PCV. Now I agree with Ray in that you should get the PCV w/ignition BUT-- you will have to take the tank off to get to the coils.
It's easy once you learn what steps to take to make it easier.
 

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FI Controller

Gmann Industries. Owner is Gary Ford. I own two, it's the only one that really works. You do the dyno while riding or idling. There are no maps. You can tweak your engine anyway you desire in five seconds. It's affordable, he answers his own phone for any questions. He started doing Suzuki's and branched out. These things work. I richen my bike for hot weather and lean it for cool. Look into this. BTW, I have no affiliation whatsoever with Gmann at all. Just trying to help...
 

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Gman, Bully, EJK - all the same unit with various brands overlaid... We've tried to tip the OP in that direction over on the VBA forum... Love my EJK.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Gman, Bully, EJK - all the same unit with various brands overlaid... We've tried to tip the OP in that direction over on the VBA forum... Love my EJK.

You got me Peg. I am convinced on the EJK. Should have it in about 3 weeks along with a host of other goodies for the Vaq.:D
 

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I love the EJK , It's easy to use and makes the bike run so smooth.. you can run rich or lean in different cycles , you can also add fuel up to idle and lessen the deceleration popping.. best $250.00 I ever spent. Don't forget forum members get 10% off , just send them the link to you're forum profile in you're order.. :)
 
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