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There was an incident in the St. Louis area a couple of days ago where a Harley rider and his wife who also had a bike were riding down the highway when a 65 year old grandfather with his wife and 9 year old grandson in the car apparently cut off the female rider. Then both the husband and the wife chased the grandpa until he got off the highway and stopped at a traffic light.
The harley guy got off his bike and argued with the grandpa whose car window was open. As the story read the cyclist who was 47 then began punching the grandpa through the open window an then the grandpa pulled a .380 pistol and shot him once in the chest. Grandpa then drove his wife and grandchild home and turned himself into the police. The rider is hospitalized and will recover.

There is a big debate going on as to whether charges will be filed against the grandpa or was it a matter of self defense. I say self defense. What do you guys think about this?
 

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Self defense all the way. Even though the old guy was wrong to cut the rider off, the rider's response was to escalate the incident into unwarranted assault. The old guy was in his car, seated, and was attacked, which is a separate incident from cutting the bikes off. I'd probably have shot him too, or at least brandished the weapon to get the guy to leave. Although it could be said that the old guy could have just rolled up the window and driven away, it's always easy to say what I would have done after the fact if I was in his shoes, but until I am, I can't really know.
 

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The biker let his hot head rule. And now is suffering. The driver defended himself from an assault. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the fact he went from bad driver to justifiable defender.

Sometimes we have to just let it go.

Also, you never ever know who you are talking to. Act accordingly.



Sent from my Motorcycle iPhone app
 

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Also, you never ever know who you are talking to. Act accordingly.
^^^ This.

You never know who is in the car. Not only could they be carrying a gun, but they could simply run into you with their car. If I had a confrontation with every idiot who cut me off in traffic in my life I'd probably be dead or in jail.
 

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Self defense all the way. Even though the old guy was wrong to cut the rider off, the rider's response was to escalate the incident into unwarranted assault. The old guy was in his car, seated, and was attacked, which is a separate incident from cutting the bikes off. I'd probably have shot him too, or at least brandished the weapon to get the guy to leave. Although it could be said that the old guy could have just rolled up the window and driven away, it's always easy to say what I would have done after the fact if I was in his shoes, but until I am, I can't really know.
I agree with this...
 

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Being relatively new to riding I am way more sensitive now to the carelessness of cagers than before. That being said I am still amazed at the stuff I see some guys on bikes do that turns cagers off...works both ways. I just try to keep my head on a swivel at all times.
 

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It is the "what if" syndrome.

What if the biker would have driven on after the incident?

What if the grandpa left his gun at home or called 911 when biker approached his car?

What if the biker was in an accident and grandpa was first on the scene or the other way around? No doubt both would have helped the other...

We should learn from this! We should present scenarios in our minds and how we should act or react.

The biker could have prevented this. The grandpa could have been a more careful driver.
 

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There was an incident in the St. Louis area a couple of days ago where a Harley rider and his wife who also had a bike were riding down the highway when a 65 year old grandfather with his wife and 9 year old grandson in the car apparently cut off the female rider. Then both the husband and the wife chased the grandpa until he got off the highway and stopped at a traffic light.
The harley guy got off his bike and argued with the grandpa whose car window was open. As the story read the cyclist who was 47 then began punching the grandpa through the open window an then the grandpa pulled a .380 pistol and shot him once in the chest. Grandpa then drove his wife and grandchild home and turned himself into the police. The rider is hospitalized and will recover.

There is a big debate going on as to whether charges will be filed against the grandpa or was it a matter of self defense. I say self defense. What do you guys think about this?
Here in Florida it would definitely be self defense. The "castle" doctrine (a man's home is his castle, etc). applies to your motor vehicle as well. If you are in your vehicle and someone attempts to assault you or enter the vehicle, you can defend yourself the same as if they tried to enter your home.
 

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There is a big debate going on as to whether charges will be filed against the grandpa or was it a matter of self defense. I say self defense. What do you guys think about this?
The way the story reads; it is self defense all the way.
It may seem easy to take the side of the motorcyclist over the cager; but if you attack someone who cannot physically defend themselves. Then you deserve to be shot!

Blockhead said:
That being said I am still amazed at the stuff I see some guys on bikes do that turns cagers off...works both ways.
^This!!


Scott
 

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Here in Southern California, this kind of aggresion is far too normal, from both sides. I agree with the previously said, if I took on everyone that cut me off, I probably wouldn't be here. Heck aound here one of the worst groups for cutting people off are the bus drivers, I don't think anyone is fool enough to take one of those on.
 

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Self defense, no question.
 

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After reading this thread, it reminds me of a situation I heard about where there was a motorcyclist and his wife riding and they got into a roadrage fight with a car, the car came to a stop light and the bikers got off his motorcycle and confronted the car driver, I am not sure what happened next but I did remember hearing in the end the driver of the car put his car in reverse and smashed into his bike knocking down the bike and the bikers wife who was still on the motorcycle, then the car driver sped off
 

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Here in Southern California, this kind of aggresion is far too normal, from both sides. I agree with the previously said, if I took on everyone that cut me off, I probably wouldn't be here. Heck aound here one of the worst groups for cutting people off are the bus drivers, I don't think anyone is fool enough to take one of those on.
Boy howdy! Once when I lived in LA, I was in my car coming home from work. I was turning right on a red onto a 4 lane street. A van coming the other way was turning left, so we both turned onto the street at the same time, I into the right lane, he into the left. The driver blared his horn at me,and I, being young and dumb at the time, gave him the one finger salute. Next thing I know, the van is beside me, the side door flies open and there are 3 or 4 heavily tattooed Hispanic males with bandannas and no shirts, swinging a chain and demanding I pull over, spitting on my windshield, etc. They maneuvered in front of my car and were obviously going to try to stop me, so we came upon a side street and I whipped a hard right and took off as fast as I could. I lost them, but I realized then and there that 1) keep my fingers to myself, 2) you never know who you're dealing with, 3) the John Wayne stuff only works in the movies.
 

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There was a thread regarding this in another board, with a lot of unreasonably-minded folks. It's amazing what people will read into a newspaper story assuming facts not contained in the article. This one, as usual, is a typical newspaper story that is no more than a short synopsis of what happened, and is completely devoid of any factual material, other than, "car cuts off biker, biker assaults driver of car, driver shoots biker.

The first thing is to avoid referring to the car driver as "old guy" or "grandpa" or "gramps." I suspect that a large number of us on this board fall into that category, as do I. Nothing can be assumed due simply to his age. The story doesn't give the details as to how he cut off the biker. I may have been deliberate or perhaps he just didn't see the second bike, which is a common thing. Also not mentioned was the nature of the assault on the car driver by the biker. Was it just verbal and threatening posture or did the guy actually start hitting the man? Again, the article doesn't say. The fact that the prosecutor's office isn't sure about prosecuting the driver of the car suggests to me, after 30 years of law enforcement, that the guy may have been justified. But because there is an ongoing police investigation, the public won't be provided any real facts unless someone is charged criminally.

The moral of the story is, though, things happen on the road, and one ought to let it go rather than let road rage rule. It never has a happy ending. As motorcyclists, we often take offense at some cage driver that cut's us off or drifts into our lane, turns in front of us, etc., etc. But not all these acts are deliberate. Drivers get distracted by messing with the radio, talking on the cell phone or worse, texting or even just talking to a passenger. Have you ever stopped at a traffic light and watched someone singing in their car? Looks silly, but often those folks are really distracted. And yes, one never knows who is in the car when they accost the driver, or what his reaction will be. This idiot found out, didn't he?

Sigh, life if certainly complicated, isn't it? I'll bet the biker thinks twice about confronting a driver in a threatening manner again.
 

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Self defense all the way, although the old man should have stayed at the scene. This may hurt him if it does happen to make it to a court room.

God bless both parties involved...
 

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I agree with the sentiment here, based on the information provided it is self defense.
The biker, (guy on the motorcycle) should have adjusted on the highway and gone on his merry way happy to have survived another near miss. Once he attacked the car driver all bets are off because he crossed the line. I agree sometimes it is difficult to just take it and go on, but that is what I work diligently to do when it happens to me, and that is the story I pass on to my grandkids while telling these stories at the table.
Besides 5 minutes after it happens you have to be looking for the next incident. In the mean time I just try hard to enjoy the ride and time I may have left.
 
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