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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, I have a couple of questions about Ceramic coating for motorcycle exhausts.

I recently bought a set of blacked out RoadBurner Large Radius pipes, and they do look great - at least they did at first.

I went for a 100 mile ride this weekend and it seemed like every road was under construction. Thanks to that, I had a few rock or other debris bounce off the bike, and the pipes. This caused the ceramic coating to chip, and now I have some very noticeable chips in the black coating that show the bare metal underneath.

I don't have much exp with ceramic coatings, but this seems rather bad. Also, I can use my fingernail to scrape off more of the coating all the way down to the bare metal.

Is this normal? and if so - that would seem to indicate ceramic coatings are for show and not use!

Any input or comments would be appreciated.

Doc
 

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Hi all, I have a couple of questions about Ceramic coating for motorcycle exhausts.

I recently bought a set of blacked out RoadBurner Large Radius pipes, and they do look great - at least they did at first.

I went for a 100 mile ride this weekend and it seemed like every road was under construction. Thanks to that, I had a few rock or other debris bounce off the bike, and the pipes. This caused the ceramic coating to chip, and now I have some very noticeable chips in the black coating that show the bare metal underneath.

I don't have much exp with ceramic coatings, but this seems rather bad. Also, I can use my fingernail to scrape off more of the coating all the way down to the bare metal.

Is this normal? and if so - that would seem to indicate ceramic coatings are for show and not use!

Any input or comments would be appreciated.

Doc
Doc, I've only used wraps so as far as ceramic goes I would agree that it doesn't sound normal. Perhaps the coating was not applied correctly? Seems right to me that whenever we do a "shakedown cruise" after doing something to our bikes and there's something wrong then there is a problem. I'm going to read about this and learn more since you brought it up. Regardless, I wish you success with it and please post back what you either found to be the problem or the solution so we can all learn off you.
 

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Hi all, I have a couple of questions about Ceramic coating for motorcycle exhausts.

I recently bought a set of blacked out RoadBurner Large Radius pipes, and they do look great - at least they did at first.

I went for a 100 mile ride this weekend and it seemed like every road was under construction. Thanks to that, I had a few rock or other debris bounce off the bike, and the pipes. This caused the ceramic coating to chip, and now I have some very noticeable chips in the black coating that show the bare metal underneath.

I don't have much exp with ceramic coatings, but this seems rather bad. Also, I can use my fingernail to scrape off more of the coating all the way down to the bare metal.

Is this normal? and if so - that would seem to indicate ceramic coatings are for show and not use!

Any input or comments would be appreciated.

Doc
Check out these links. They are very informative and could point to a problem with the quality of the pipes or how they were coated. If that is the case you can take them back right?

http://www.hdforums.com/forum/fuel-moto-jackpot-mufflers/602455-question-about-ceramic-coated-head-pipes.html

http://www.jet-hot.com/

http://www.ehow.com/how_7328835_ceramic-coat-exhaust.html

At first I was thrown by your ceramic coating reference and then I remembered Jet Hot. It's good stuff and doesn't do that if applied correctly. Hope this can help point you in the right direction and please don't forget to post back your problem's solution. Wishing you success with it.
 

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My Cobras scratched very easily when I installed them. I used BBQ hi temp flat black paint out of a rattle can to touch them up and it worked great. Still there years later.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Sojourner, I was thinking I might do that, but what is making me wonder about the coating in general is the ability to scrape it off with my fingernails. That part makes no sense to me. Regular powder coating is incredibly strong, and very difficult to remove. I know ceramic is different, but the fact that it comes off so easily is worrisome.

Hard Krome / RoadBurner makes some great pipes, but I think these blacked out ones are relatively new to them. I wonder if I just got a bad run... I'm going to call them later today and see what they say. I doubt I can send them back, they are already on the bike and have been "used". Maybe I can get a partial refund, but I doubt that too.

I'm also going to call Jet-Hot and see what they say. Might be worth sending the pipes to them and see if they can re-coat them with some sturdier stuff!

I will most certainly post back with any updates or answers!

Doc

My Cobras scratched very easily when I installed them. I used BBQ hi temp flat black paint out of a rattle can to touch them up and it worked great. Still there years later.
 

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Thanks Sojourner, I was thinking I might do that, but what is making me wonder about the coating in general is the ability to scrape it off with my fingernails. That part makes no sense to me. Regular powder coating is incredibly strong, and very difficult to remove. I know ceramic is different, but the fact that it comes off so easily is worrisome.

Hard Krome / RoadBurner makes some great pipes, but I think these blacked out ones are relatively new to them. I wonder if I just got a bad run... I'm going to call them later today and see what they say. I doubt I can send them back, they are already on the bike and have been "used". Maybe I can get a partial refund, but I doubt that too.

I'm also going to call Jet-Hot and see what they say. Might be worth sending the pipes to them and see if they can re-coat them with some sturdier stuff!

I will most certainly post back with any updates or answers!

Doc
From my brief experience with ceramic coated pipes, which also includes V&H pipes on my friends Harley, they scratch very easily. Unfortunately powdercoating won't hold up to the heat coming from the engine's exhaust.
 

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Jet Hot is tough and I've not heard of any of the same issues with it. My money's on Jet Hot if I were ever going that route.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I just spoke to the folks at Jet-Hot and explained the situation. They seemed surprised I could scrape off the current coating with my fingernail. They've basically told me it would be around $300 plus shipping to remove the current coating ($50) and then coat with the hi-temp stuff ($250).

Seems high, but they told me it won't chip, and I certainly won't be able to scrape it off with my fingernail. They also warranty for life, so if it does chip, flake, or come off they will re-coat for free. Not a bad deal.

Next I'm calling RoadBurner. I'm really disappointed in the coating. Maybe i had the wrong expectations, but I don't think it's unreasonable that the coating be a little tougher!

Doc
 

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I just spoke to the folks at Jet-Hot and explained the situation. They seemed surprised I could scrape off the current coating with my fingernail. They've basically told me it would be around $300 plus shipping to remove the current coating ($50) and then coat with the hi-temp stuff ($250).

Seems high, but they told me it won't chip, and I certainly won't be able to scrape it off with my fingernail. They also warranty for life, so if it does chip, flake, or come off they will re-coat for free. Not a bad deal.

Next I'm calling RoadBurner. I'm really disappointed in the coating. Maybe i had the wrong expectations, but I don't think it's unreasonable that the coating be a little tougher!

Doc
I agree, Doc. Seems like a manufacturing defect to me and I would try getting some credit if not all of it back for those pipes if I were in your shoes. I've heard and read about the low quality products having problems but never heard anything bad about Jet Hot. Like I said my money is on them. Sounds like you'll get a good lifetime warranty from them. Don't know about RoadBurner's warranty though or how good they are compared to Jet Hot. Thing is that stuff needs to be applied right and if it isn't then it will not work or last. Let us know what's going on dude. RB's pipes do look sweet though.
 

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RE: Ceramic Coating Motorcycle Pipes & Exhaust

Hi all, I have a couple of questions about Ceramic coating for motorcycle exhausts.

I recently bought a set of blacked out RoadBurner Large Radius pipes, and they do look great - at least they did at first.

I went for a 100 mile ride this weekend and it seemed like every road was under construction. Thanks to that, I had a few rock or other debris bounce off the bike, and the pipes. This caused the ceramic coating to chip, and now I have some very noticeable chips in the black coating that show the bare metal underneath.

I don't have much exp with ceramic coatings, but this seems rather bad. Also, I can use my fingernail to scrape off more of the coating all the way down to the bare metal.

Is this normal? and if so - that would seem to indicate ceramic coatings are for show and not use!

Any input or comments would be appreciated.

Doc

Hey Doc:

To answer your first question, no this is NOT normal. Although Ceramic Coatings are not Kryptonite, they are very durable when applied PROPERLY. I repeat, PROPERLY. The fact that you can take your nail and scratch the coating off of the substrate indicates to me that the coating was NOT applied PROPERLY. In your case, if rocks are flying at your pipes at 55-75MPH you’re bound to get some marks, but it shouldn’t be flaking off anywhere else.


The two most likely causes for what you’re describing are:

1) Improper substrate cleaning / preparation
2) Improper material / cure cycle

We’ve been in the Performance Coating business offering both High Temp Ceramic Coatings and Powder Coatings for close to 15 years. Our area of specialty is Performance Motorsports, which could include anything from a 5hp mini bike up to the Worlds Fastest 10.5 twin turbo Shootout Car making 4000HP+. Based on your description, I’d be willing to bet that the prep is insufficient. In that “Black Ceramic Coating” has become pretty popular for various bikes over the last few years, pipe makers have taken some of this work in house. In order to get Ceramic Coating to stick to your pipes we would burn them in a furnace at about 650F-850F for about 5 hours. This destroys any mandrel oils, greases, etc. From there they are profiled / blasted with a specific media based on the type of Ceramic being used. At this point your parts are being treated as if they were being prepped for open heart surgery, CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN!!!!!. After profiling they are sprayed and baked accordingly.

Most pipe makers DON’T have the time, man-power or capability to prep the pipes properly. They’re in the pipe building business, not the coating business. In many cases they may wipe them down or try to scuff them with scotch brite but this usually doesn’t hold up very long. The other thing we see a lot of is, YOUR Ceramic Coated pipes were previously a set damaged or blemmed CHROME pipes. So now prepping chrome is even more critical than that of raw metal pipes so this doesn’t usualy end well either.

If the manufacturer or dealer will warrantly them, give it a shot. If not, we’d be happy to help you correct the problem. Below are a couple recent Vulcans pipes we’ve done as well as pipes from a few other bikes……We offer about 12 different colors of Ceramic Coating and most of those are rated at 2000F+ so there are no worries of over heating the pipes or coatings.

Hope this helps,

CCPcoatings.com















 

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Hey Doc:

To answer your first question, no this is NOT normal. Although Ceramic Coatings are not Kryptonite, they are very durable when applied PROPERLY. I repeat, PROPERLY. The fact that you can take your nail and scratch the coating off of the substrate indicates to me that the coating was NOT applied PROPERLY. In your case, if rocks are flying at your pipes at 55-75MPH you’re bound to get some marks, but it shouldn’t be flaking off anywhere else.


The two most likely causes for what you’re describing are:

1) Improper substrate cleaning / preparation
2) Improper material / cure cycle

We’ve been in the Performance Coating business offering both High Temp Ceramic Coatings and Powder Coatings for close to 15 years. Our area of specialty is Performance Motorsports, which could include anything from a 5hp mini bike up to the Worlds Fastest 10.5 twin turbo Shootout Car making 4000HP+. Based on your description, I’d be willing to bet that the prep is insufficient. In that “Black Ceramic Coating” has become pretty popular for various bikes over the last few years, pipe makers have taken some of this work in house. In order to get Ceramic Coating to stick to your pipes we would burn them in a furnace at about 650F-850F for about 5 hours. This destroys any mandrel oils, greases, etc. From there they are profiled / blasted with a specific media based on the type of Ceramic being used. At this point your parts are being treated as if they were being prepped for open heart surgery, CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN!!!!!. After profiling they are sprayed and baked accordingly.

Most pipe makers DON’T have the time, man-power or capability to prep the pipes properly. They’re in the pipe building business, not the coating business. In many cases they may wipe them down or try to scuff them with scotch brite but this usually doesn’t hold up very long. The other thing we see a lot of is, YOUR Ceramic Coated pipes were previously a set damaged or blemmed CHROME pipes. So now prepping chrome is even more critical than that of raw metal pipes so this doesn’t usualy end well either.

If the manufacturer or dealer will warrantly them, give it a shot. If not, we’d be happy to help you correct the problem. Below are a couple recent Vulcans pipes we’ve done as well as pipes from a few other bikes……We offer about 12 different colors of Ceramic Coating and most of those are rated at 2000F+ so there are no worries of over heating the pipes or coatings.

Hope this helps,

CCPcoatings.com















Thanks for the knowledge and info CCP.

@Doc ......... There's the lowdown. Hope that business can give you credit. If not then you always have CCP and Jet Hot to set you up right. Wish you success and let us know how it all works out and which setup you went with.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks CCPcoatings and Comanche for the posts, this answers a bunch of my questions. I did call around to other places (Jet-Hot and a few local places too) and they all said pretty much the same thing. It might chip, but you should not be able to scrape it off. They all said it was either poorly cured/baked or the substrate was not prepped properly.

I contacted RoadBurner and spoke with Brandon in sales and Mike in Production. Mike told me they are going send me an RMA and they will re-process and re-coat the pipes all under warranty and on their dime. I'm willing to give them a shot at making this right as they have been very helpful during this whole process.

I made a quick video before I spoke to them showing the problem and expressing my disappointment at the coating.


Should take a week or 2 for the pipes to come back, so I'll update this post when I get them.

If this fails, then on to CCPcoatings or Jet-Hot - and see if I can get RB to pay for it!

Doc



Hey Doc:

To answer your first question, no this is NOT normal. Although Ceramic Coatings are not Kryptonite, they are very durable when applied PROPERLY. I repeat, PROPERLY. The fact that you can take your nail and scratch the coating off of the substrate indicates to me that the coating was NOT applied PROPERLY. In your case, if rocks are flying at your pipes at 55-75MPH you’re bound to get some marks, but it shouldn’t be flaking off anywhere else.


The two most likely causes for what you’re describing are:

1) Improper substrate cleaning / preparation
2) Improper material / cure cycle
 

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Thanks CCPcoatings and Comanche for the posts, this answers a bunch of my questions. I did call around to other places (Jet-Hot and a few local places too) and they all said pretty much the same thing. It might chip, but you should not be able to scrape it off. They all said it was either poorly cured/baked or the substrate was not prepped properly.

I contacted RoadBurner and spoke with Brandon in sales and Mike in Production. Mike told me they are going send me an RMA and they will re-process and re-coat the pipes all under warranty and on their dime. I'm willing to give them a shot at making this right as they have been very helpful during this whole process.

I made a quick video before I spoke to them showing the problem and expressing my disappointment at the coating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWs_stCLKy8

Should take a week or 2 for the pipes to come back, so I'll update this post when I get them.

If this fails, then on to CCPcoatings or Jet-Hot - and see if I can get RB to pay for it!

Doc
You beat me to the punch. I was going to ask for pics, but a video is even better. It sounds like they are willing to stand behind their product so I guess we'll have to see if its a processing issue, material issue or a fluke....
 

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You beat me to the punch. I was going to ask for pics, but a video is even better. It sounds like they are willing to stand behind their product so I guess we'll have to see if its a processing issue, material issue or a fluke....
@CCP...........You are a top notch company to help out like that. I'll be looking for you for future projects and rebuilds.

@Doc............Glad it worked out for the time being. Hope the pipes are good when they come back if not then you will most definitely deserve and likely get a full refund from RB. Keep us posted.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
So here is the latest. I shipped the pipes back to Road Burner last week. They've had them since Monday. I got an email from them today saying they had prepped them and would be coating them Monday or Tuesday because the weather was very rainy and not the best for the curing process.

Don't really understand that part, I would think these would be cured in an oven or some such.

I should have them back in another week to 10 days. I'll make sure to report back here what happens.

Doc
 

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So here is the latest. I shipped the pipes back to Road Burner last week. They've had them since Monday. I got an email from them today saying they had prepped them and would be coating them Monday or Tuesday because the weather was very rainy and not the best for the curing process.

Don't really understand that part, I would think these would be cured in an oven or some such.

I should have them back in another week to 10 days. I'll make sure to report back here what happens.

Doc
The coating is designed to withstand heat but it doesn't mean it's durable. Powdercoating is somewhat durable but will burn off when the temperature is high enough. Hi temp paint, in a rattle can, will do the job nicely. You will never see the difference when you touch up a flat black "ceramic" finish.
 

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So here is the latest. I shipped the pipes back to Road Burner last week. They've had them since Monday. I got an email from them today saying they had prepped them and would be coating them Monday or Tuesday because the weather was very rainy and not the best for the curing process.

Don't really understand that part, I would think these would be cured in an oven or some such.

I should have them back in another week to 10 days. I'll make sure to report back here what happens.

Doc
What they are referring to is "humidity". This can be very problematic during hot summer and rainy days..... We've learned the hard way that we can't spray certain types of Ceramics on really humid days. It ends up bubbling which means we have to start all over again....
 

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Logic

I often wonder about nit-pickers ( I used to be one ) because my dad was a museum curator, not. He would tinker-tinker on something then sell it. When I was about 12yo I spouted off to him (while he was driving his 1964 Oldsmobile 98, which he had just traded his perfectly good Oldsmobile super 88 for). I said "why don't you just buy a mercedes and you won't have to trade cars all of the time". He never answered me.

Leave the Vulcan alone, good G_D it friggin flies as is.
 
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