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Discussion Starter #1
Hopefully ray will chime in, but I am wondering if any headway has been made into figuring out what causes the bog down once the bike warms up. I noticed on the PCV info while installing that I can have things happen based on


Analog input (allows user to install any 0-5 volt sensor and build an adjustment table based on its input such as boost or temperature)


If we can determine if the stock map is retarding ignition, or richening the fuel or a combination of both, we should be able to build in a correction into the map based on thermostat temps....


RAY and all you other mad scientists - help!
 

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I have performed numerous dyno runs on Vulcan 1700's with the temp gauge needle in various positions. I have found that when the needle gets 1/2 way between the halfway line and the next line the ECU starts to retard the ignition timing, the higher that needle goes the more ignition retard
There is a substantial loss of power when the needle gets to the 3/4 mark, if memory serves me that loss amounts to about 5 h.p.
The acceleration is affected and the skoot runs like poopoo. I have had a fan switch on my skoot for a lonf time now, when I get into slow traffic I just turn the fan on and never see the needle past the halfway mark.

RACNRAY
 

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So about that wiring Ray ... care to share with the class? I hate to re-invent the wheel!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I have performed numerous dyno runs on Vulcan 1700's with the temp gauge needle in various positions. I have found that when the needle gets 1/2 way between the halfway line and the next line the ECU starts to retard the ignition timing, the higher that needle goes the more ignition retard
There is a substantial loss of power when the needle gets to the 3/4 mark, if memory serves me that loss amounts to about 5 h.p.
The acceleration is affected and the skoot runs like poopoo. I have had a fan switch on my skoot for a lonf time now, when I get into slow traffic I just turn the fan on and never see the needle past the halfway mark.

RACNRAY
Right, I understand that...but it should be consistent retardation - that could be remedied with programming the pcv to advance ignition in correlation to the temp sensor...solving the issue of needing a fan switch, and allowing the bike to operate the way it should, rather than the way kawi intended - without fooling with the thermostat, or having a switch.

my hondas always ran just as strong no matter how hot the coolant was, and my dads and bros harleys run (or so they say) just as good when cool or hot....

So about that wiring Ray ... care to share with the class? I hate to re-invent the wheel!
im thinking we should be able to measure the timing on a bike that is hot, and figure out the wiring for the temp or temp sensor with the help of dynojet tech....now if i just had a free dyno sitting around ;-)
 

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From the dyno runs I have done the amount of ignition retard is not a constant. The power loss with the temp gauge needle midway between the halfway and 3/4 mark is not as great as with the needle at the 3/4 mark.

If I forget to turn my fan on and the needle gets a bit past halfway I can feel the slight hesitation, but it is not as bad as with the needle at 3/4, it is very noticeable.

There is noway on these skoots to check ignition timing, there are no access ports to view timing marks while the engine is running.

Different temp thermostats will not work to alter coolnat temp once the stat is full open, as the coolant temp will still reach those high temps in traffic.

The 1700's are the first skoots that my ole memory can, uh, remember, that has an ignition retard programmed into the ecu based on engine temp.

RACNRAY
 

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Ray, why would Ma Kaw retard the ignition in correlation to coolant/engine temp? I have also noticed my 9 hates the heat, although it never appears to run hot....
Is it for engine life/longevity?
 

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So about that wiring Ray ... care to share with the class?
Next time I have my seat off I will inspect the wiring and report back.

Ray, why would Ma Kaw retard the ignition in correlation to coolant/engine temp? I have also noticed my 9 hates the heat, although it never appears to run hot....
Is it for engine life/longevity?
See below...

Could be to help prevent preignition since its more likely with higher temp and more timing?


Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App
YES...the big mistake I feel Kawi made with the 1700 is using only one spark plug per cylinder on an engine with a 4" bore. The old 1500/1600's and most big bore v-twins now a days use 2 plugs per cyclinder. This allows for more complete combustion and also minimizes pinging.

On the 1700's I feel Kawi feared, or maybe experienced in pre-production testing, pinging when the engine got hot. Easy thing is to program the ECU to stsrt retarding the ignition timing as coolant temps rise.

RACNRAY
 

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Ill keep my eyes peeled for the wiring as well. I wouldn't mind being able to control the fan. Until I leave it on and kill the battery one of these days :D
 

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Ill keep my eyes peeled for the wiring as well. I wouldn't mind being able to control the fan. Until I leave it on and kill the battery one of these days :D
Not a problem - my understanding is that Ray wired it so that the fan's manual switch is powered only when the key is on.
 

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Not a problem - my understanding is that Ray wired it so that the fan's manual switch is powered only when the key is on.
I wired the fan to run with the key in any position. Was the easiest way to do it. The switch is not readily seen so I don't think (so far anyways) that anyone would mess with it.

Fortunately the fan is loud enuff that if i shut the engine off with the fan on the fan noise is audible enuff to know it's still on. Only one time did I forget it cuz I did not take my helmet off when I was by the skoot and walked right away. The fan ran for about 40 minutes but the battery was ok, started right up with no problem.

I will make it a point to supply the wiring whan I come back from vacation.

Please remind me :rolleyes:

RACNRAY
 

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I would run an aux power straight from the battery through a switch and use a relay tied to ignition to kick in ang give the power to the manual fan switch. A simple operation...... Right after I got the Voyager I ran aux power wires off 4 relays with two switched by ignition only and two that kick in the relay with ignition but will go through a switch. But I can actually do either way with any wire. All fused to a fuse block of course. (no fuses in 3 of them now.)
 

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Ray, reminding you about the wiring for the fan.
I just didn't have the heart to keep bugging Ray about it, he has been so good to all of us. I could set up a script I suppose ... every day or so?

"Ray, about that fan wiring?"

"Ray, about that fan wiring?"

"Ray, about that fan wiring?"

What do you think? :D
 

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He asked us to remind him when he got back from vacation, so that's what I did. Ray is a outstanding guy and a great friend to all of us here on the forum. I am not going to nag him, just the friendly reminder he asked us to do.
 

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Sad to say that on the last leg of my last day's ride on my vacation the engine started to make a noise, sounds like a collapsed hla. Skoot is gonna go up on the lift asap and I will take a looksie at the fan wiring while we are diagnosing this problem.

A good idea would be to also find a thermostatic switch rated at the appropriate temp that would kick the fan on without us having to manually turn it on. We would have to find a good spot to drill and tap a hole for the switch. HMMM, just might be something I'll have to look into.

RACNRAY
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Sad to say that on the last leg of my last day's ride on my vacation the engine started to make a noise, sounds like a collapsed hla. Skoot is gonna go up on the lift asap and I will take a looksie at the fan wiring while we are diagnosing this problem.

A good idea would be to also find a thermostatic switch rated at the appropriate temp that would kick the fan on without us having to manually turn it on. We would have to find a good spot to drill and tap a hole for the switch. HMMM, just might be something I'll have to look into.

RACNRAY
Ray, summer is coming up, and i am dreading the sluggish performance...I would like to do a switch or thermostatic switch (you ever do any more research here)....did those grips come in yet?
 

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Ray, summer is coming up, and i am dreading the sluggish performance...I would like to do a switch or thermostatic switch (you ever do any more research here)....did those grips come in yet?
I never did any research on a thermostatic switch. The fan is operated by the ECU, not by a thermo switch. A whole other circuit would have to be fabricated to operate the fan thermostatically at a lower temp. It is easy to wire in a manual switch.

Grips came in today and have been modified, I will call you asap.

THANX
RACNRAY
 
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