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Discussion Starter #1
Is there an easy way of turning off the linked brake feature of the Vaquero?

Pulling a fuse or something????
 

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Not sure, but why would you want to do that?

You do have the K-act break system, right?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Not sure, but why would you want to do that?

You do have the K-act break system, right?

Yes K act. I can't trail the rear brake on its own going into bends and roundabouts etc, especially in the wet, without the front sliding.

Although for such a heavy bike the amount of feedback as to what the wheels and tyres are doing is incredible.

I would rather have independent control over my brakes, I don't mind having the ABS though, my last bike had ABS and it was good once you got use to it coming on, rather than having to ease off and re-apply the brake front or rear.
 

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Is there an easy way of turning off the linked brake feature of the Vaquero?

Pulling a fuse or something????
http://www.kawasaki-cp.khi.co.jp/technology/chassis/tech_k-act_abs_e.html

Based on the blurb and video in the above attachment, I would not think that disabling the K-ACT system would be simple or even advisable.

If it is, in fact, tied into the main ECU, then I definitely would not try messing with it. If the ECU in question is a secondary one only servicing the ABS then you might be able to disable it, but then you might lose normal braking efficiency as it controls the hydraulics.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It's a shame it isn't like the KTM system that accounts for lean angle when operating the ABS valves.

Will have to ask my dealer, although I can already guess his answer.
 

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Why would you drag the rear brake. Slow down then turn. Look up trail breaking. It is intended to change the trail as in rake and trail. Helps the bjme have a quicker turn in.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Why would you drag the rear brake. Slow down then turn. Look up trail breaking. It is intended to change the trail as in rake and trail. Helps the bjme have a quicker turn in.
Why would you drag the rear brake?

Well, you are correct when you say that you should slow down and then turn. This is a basic technique, one I use to teach to new riders. Once they had got the hang of that, and were progressing in their skills and if they had the natural ability to go quicker I would then teach them to brake later into the turn, and in the dry right up to the apex of the bend, before smoothly easing off the brakes and getting on the power. When riding at the extreme limits of traction or grip (such at high lean angles whilst braking) it is very important to do everything smoothly, so as not to overcome the small available grip that remains, by for example nailing the throttle (obvious traction problems), or jumping off the brakes which would allow the suspension to extend quickly and unsettle the bike. Trailing of the rear brake is an extension of this technique. It is very useful in the wet when application of the rear brake only allows the rider to continue braking further into the bend than would be possible by using both brakes together, because of the reduced amount of front grip. The rider would still only brake until the apex, but would release the front brake earlier than the rear as the lean angle increases so as not to overwhelm the front tyre. It is very difficult to save the front in the wet once it has gone from pushing slightly to actually sliding. However, in comparison, it is much easier to both save the rear when it slides, and also detect the point at which 'push' turns to 'slide'. Also, when riding a high powered machine, trailing the rear brake only, can be useful when you overlap the last of the braking phase, with the very first part of the power phase just as you are getting on the throttle. This can prevent the rear from spinning up, or with modern fuel injection that doesn't always come in smoothly., prevent that little stutter as the power comes back in, which in low grip situations again could unsettle the bike.

I hope this answers your question. I use to charge a lot for information and techniques like this. :)
 

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Why would you drag the rear brake?

Well, you are correct when you say that you should slow down and then turn. This is a basic technique, one I use to teach to new riders. Once they had got the hang of that, and were progressing in their skills and if they had the natural ability to go quicker I would then teach them to brake later into the turn, and in the dry right up to the apex of the bend, before smoothly easing off the brakes and getting on the power. When riding at the extreme limits of traction or grip (such at high lean angles whilst braking) it is very important to do everything smoothly, so as not to overcome the small available grip that remains, by for example nailing the throttle (obvious traction problems), or jumping off the brakes which would allow the suspension to extend quickly and unsettle the bike. Trailing of the rear brake is an extension of this technique. It is very useful in the wet when application of the rear brake only allows the rider to continue braking further into the bend than would be possible by using both brakes together, because of the reduced amount of front grip. The rider would still only brake until the apex, but would release the front brake earlier than the rear as the lean angle increases so as not to overwhelm the front tyre. It is very difficult to save the front in the wet once it has gone from pushing slightly to actually sliding. However, in comparison, it is much easier to both save the rear when it slides, and also detect the point at which 'push' turns to 'slide'. Also, when riding a high powered machine, trailing the rear brake only, can be useful when you overlap the last of the braking phase, with the very first part of the power phase just as you are getting on the throttle. This can prevent the rear from spinning up, or with modern fuel injection that doesn't always come in smoothly., prevent that little stutter as the power comes back in, which in low grip situations again could unsettle the bike.

I hope this answers your question. I use to charge a lot for information and techniques like this. :)
These VVs aren't exactly leaning machines.

You'll scrape the frame and un-weight the rear wheel before you get near the traction limits of your tires.

Trail braking is overkill. And even leaned over scraping the boards; your tires still have a good bit of traction to share before they break grip.

Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #9
These VVs aren't exactly leaning machines.

You'll scrape the frame and un-weight the rear wheel before you get near the traction limits of your tires.

Trail braking is overkill. And even leaned over scraping the boards; your tires still have a good bit of traction to share before they break grip.

Scott
Next time it's raining where you are go for a ride and brake at full lean angle with the front brake nice and firm, then come back and tell me the same thing.
 

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Next time it's raining where you are go for a ride and brake at full lean angle with the front brake nice and firm, then come back and tell me the same thing.
I don't take curves at full lean on wet pavement.:)

I also don't take curves at full lean when they have sand on them, or gravel, or the bank/camber is poor.

But, even on the best of roads; the Voyager and Vaqueros speed through a curve is going to be more limited by the lean angle than it's braking options.

If you want to apply you brakes in a smooth manner into the curve; go right ahead. (only do this in good road conditions)
If you really do know what you're doing and you don't "stab and grab"; your lean angle won't get you near enough to your your traction limit to cause a problem.

Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I don't take curves at full lean on wet pavement.:)
My point exactly.

Grip is reduced in the wet.

Now whilst you are at your maximum comfortable lean angle in the wet, go brake a whole load, and you will very quickly use up the available grip that is left that is not providing you with a cornering force, and be sliding along next to your bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I don't really care if you agree or not, my original post was just to find out if there was an easy way to get control of the brakes individually.

I'm not slating the Kawasaki K-ACT, if you like it thats fine.

If you are really interested in my riding qualifications then pm me and I'll fill you in, it's just not something I care to share with the whole forum.
 

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I don't really care if you agree or not, my original post was just to find out if there was an easy way to get control of the brakes individually.

I'm not slating the Kawasaki K-ACT, if you like it thats fine.

If you are really interested in my riding qualifications then pm me and I'll fill you in, it's just not something I care to share with the whole forum.
Buy the Non-ABS bike.

Also, leave the track riding style at the track please. Too many hazzards and single bike wrecks on the street. :D

Also, from what I have researched, the purpose of trail braking is to compress the suspension which in turn changes the steering geometry so the bike turns in quicker. Then smooth trailing off of the brakes keeps the bike stable through the turn and accelerating out helps bring the bike upright.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Buy the Non-ABS bike.

Also, leave the track riding style at the track please. Too many hazzards and single bike wrecks on the street. :D

Also, from what I have researched, the purpose of trail braking is to compress the suspension which in turn changes the steering geometry so the bike turns in quicker. Then smooth trailing off of the brakes keeps the bike stable through the turn and accelerating out helps bring the bike upright.
The nonABS bike isn't available to BUY in the UK. I don't have a problem with the ABS just the linked brakes.

Don't talk to me about road safety, I was in the business of trying to promote road safety and educate young motorcyclists as to the hazards of road riding, and the fact that the streets are NOT a race track or playground.

I never mentioned trail braking, although you are basically correct in your research conclusion.

What I said was I wanted to 'trail the rear brake'. Meaning brake only with the rear brake, or continue to brake with the rear having let the front brake off after braking with both brakes.

The thing is everyone thinks they are good rider or driver, until you start to show them techniques that they didn't know, and how it can improve their car or motorcycle control. Then slowly they start to realise that they still have things to learn and perhaps they weren't that good in the beginning, but if they listen and learn they can improve, which in turn makes them safer.

There are techniques you can bring from the track to the road to improve ones ability and safety, but, IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT GOING FAST.
 

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I get where you are coming from, I live in an area with lots of steep hills and curves. On my 2K I used my rear brake quite a bit for that very reason. Now the HD I have not have the linked brakes. Even though I have not pushed it to the limit of losing control, it give me an uneasy feeling because I don't know how it will reach when I push the brake pedal. Gonna take some getting used to for me.
 

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I think Keef knows what he's talking about. Instead of beating him up try and listen. Makes a great point especially if you want to ride a bit aggressive. I don't think many of us are racing 800 lb Voyagers but it will help in cornering with the Vics and HDs.

Just my opinion...

Thanks Keef. I think I have been dragging the brake for years just didn't realize it was a technique. More a result of getting into corners a bit quick.

Gary
 

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I don't really care if you agree or not, my original post was just to find out if there was an easy way to get control of the brakes individually.

I'm not slating the Kawasaki K-ACT, if you like it thats fine.

If you are really interested in my riding qualifications then pm me and I'll fill you in, it's just not something I care to share with the whole forum.
Your qualifications aren't what I'm questioning.
Your desire to ride a Vaquero like it's a Duc Panigale is what I'm curious about.

Shaving a 1/4 of a second off of your track time isn't really what these things were designed for.


My point exactly.

Grip is reduced in the wet.

Now whilst you are at your maximum comfortable lean angle in the wet, go brake a whole load, and you will very quickly use up the available grip that is left that is not providing you with a cornering force, and be sliding along next to your bike.
Grabbing a 'whole load' of brake isn't a good idea with or without linked brakes.
As I said before; in good conditions you have plenty of traction left in your tires to smoothly apply the brakes.

I guess I should add; in poor conditions you should ride more conservatively.:)

The nonABS bike isn't available to BUY in the UK. I don't have a problem with the ABS just the linked brakes.

Don't talk to me about road safety, I was in the business of trying to promote road safety and educate young motorcyclists as to the hazards of road riding, and the fact that the streets are NOT a race track or playground.

I never mentioned trail braking, although you are basically correct in your research conclusion.

What I said was I wanted to 'trail the rear brake'. Meaning brake only with the rear brake, or continue to brake with the rear having let the front brake off after braking with both brakes.

The thing is everyone thinks they are good rider or driver, until you start to show them techniques that they didn't know, and how it can improve their car or motorcycle control. Then slowly they start to realise that they still have things to learn and perhaps they weren't that good in the beginning, but if they listen and learn they can improve, which in turn makes them safer.

There are techniques you can bring from the track to the road to improve ones ability and safety, but, IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT GOING FAST.
If it's not about going fast; why are you wanting to cut a fraction of a second off your cornering?

When I'm not riding 2-up and I'm being a bit more aggressive in the curves.
The ones I am familiar with, in good condition etc..etc..
I will brake later and continue braking into the start of the curve. I usually transition to a neutral throttle a little before the apex. (I know I could enter faster, I could pick my butt up off the seat and really lean etc..etc..)

But, these aren't superbikes and we aren't on the track.


HOWEVER; if you want to continue braking INTO the curve (ON DRY PAVEMENT) your MAXIMUM lean angle WILL leave plenty of traction to share for SMOOTH braking. Go ahead, you'll be fine.:)

If you want to brake hard in a maximum lean on wet pavement. I will ALWAYS advise against it.

Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I think Keef knows what he's talking about. Instead of beating him up try and listen. Makes a great point especially if you want to ride a bit aggressive. I don't think many of us are racing 800 lb Voyagers but it will help in cornering with the Vics and HDs.

Just my opinion...

Thanks Keef. I think I have been dragging the brake for years just didn't realize it was a technique. More a result of getting into corners a bit quick.

Gary
Finally someone gets it.
Thank you.
 

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I'm not advocating any modification to the braking system of the K-Act Voyager but to the OPs question, yes in theory this linked brake aspect can be disabled. Its my understanding the Linked brakes are de-activated under 13 mph. My guess is if you can fool the ECU into thinking the bike is going 0 mph then the linked brakes wont work. If and how that affects the ABS aspect I'm not clear if there is a distinct separation between the two.

Craig
 

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I'm not advocating any modification to the braking system of the K-Act Voyager but to the OPs question, yes in theory this linked brake aspect can be disabled. Its my understanding the Linked brakes are de-activated under 13 mph. My guess is if you can fool the ECU into thinking the bike is going 0 mph then the linked brakes wont work. If and how that affects the ABS aspect I'm not clear if there is a distinct separation between the two.

Craig
You would most likely lose ABS as well. Too many cruiser riders try and only brake with the rear brake. That is probably why they added linked brakes.

A few years ago I test rode a 1600 Nomad at a used bike dealer. I came back and said that his detail guy got something on the front brakes because they weren't grabbing. He laughed and said that I must not be a cruiser rider. Cruiser riders never use the front brake. I have even seen custom builds with no front brake or only one rotor because they don't want to hide the pretty wheel.
 
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