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Discussion Starter #1
David Letterman called Mitt Romney a felon on his show last week, says he hasnt paid any income taxes.

1. How does everyone on here feel about that.

2. I was wondering how Mitt did that, the IRS i know would be camped out in the back yard, in your bank lobby no matter what country you bank in, in your parents yard your inlaws yard your office and anyplace else they could find you.... Not to mention the the terror they would create to get their money... Anyone on here ever had the IRS after them ?

3. So does Letterman think the American public is just plain stupid ?
 

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David Letterman called Mitt Romney a felon on his show last week, says he hasnt paid any income taxes.

1. How does everyone on here feel about that.

2. I was wondering how Mitt did that, the IRS i know would be camped out in the back yard, in your bank lobby no matter what country you bank in, in your parents yard your inlaws yard your office and anyplace else they could find you.... Not to mention the the terror they would create to get their money... Anyone on here ever had the IRS after them ?

3. So does Letterman think the American public is just plain stupid ?
Letterman hopes Americans are that stupid.
Letterman will disparage conservative candidates in any manner he can if he thinks it will help O in the polls.
It doesn't matter how bad the economy gets, he will still be rich and live behind a wall and gate.

Anyone remember what it was like when O was putting together his cabinet? How many tax cheats and lobbyists did he nominate? I can count at least five.
Tom Daschle, the first HHS nominee,
Chief performance officer nominee Nancy Killefer.
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner,
US Trade Representative Ron Kirk
Labor Secretary Hilda Solis’s (husband)

Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Letterman hopes Americans are that stupid.
Letterman will disparage conservative candidates in any manner he can if he thinks it will help O in the polls.
It doesn't matter how bad the economy gets, he will still be rich and live behind a wall and gate.

Anyone remember what it was like when O was putting together his cabinet? How many tax cheats and lobbyists did he nominate? I can count at least five.
Tom Daschle, the first HHS nominee,
Chief performance officer nominee Nancy Killefer.
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner,
US Trade Representative Ron Kirk
Labor Secretary Hilda Solis’s (husband)

Scott
Here is the link that mentions alot of the Obama cronies, talk about tax cheats.... And for you libs please take notice the link is for the Huffington Post about as liberal news as you can get...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/07/nancy-killefer-obamas-chi_n_155910.html
 

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David Letterman called Mitt Romney a felon on his show last week, says he hasnt paid any income taxes.

1. How does everyone on here feel about that.

2. I was wondering how Mitt did that, the IRS i know would be camped out in the back yard, in your bank lobby no matter what country you bank in, in your parents yard your inlaws yard your office and anyplace else they could find you.... Not to mention the the terror they would create to get their money... Anyone on here ever had the IRS after them ?

3. So does Letterman think the American public is just plain stupid ?
Not to an extreme level but I had them after me when I was 16. I was working side jobs in the evenings and weekends for other people and for some smaller companies. Well one of those smaller companies turned in paying me on their taxes, they were also audited that year and that lead them on to me. I was 16 and had no intentions of paying taxes on that (even thought legally I was supposed to). Well after it was all said and done I owed the IRS around $2,000 and I made around $6,000 the whole year.

If they will come after a 16 year old kid over that kind of money they will come after bigger dollars.
 

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When I moved down from Canada last year they witheld $0.03 worth of interest in my savings account because they hadn't received my tax exemption form yet.

So...if they would withold 3 pennies, I'm sure they would go after hundreds of thousands of dollars from Mitt.
 

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Few organizations are as ruthless as the IRS. They will leave you broke, homeless, on the street corner with only your underwear (and then only if those are stained) to your name. Letterman is one of The Chosen One's tools, I won't waste my electricity to watch him. He has to say stupid stuff to entertain his viewers. Problem is, I think he believes most of it himself.
 

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I put just as much stock in what that pos letterman has to say as I do in the words of the half-breed mutt (his own words) who was elected by illiterate ignorance. I'm willing to lay odds that letterman wouldn't fare well in an unbiased audit by the IRS either. Makes for a pot calling the kettle black sort of thing doesn't.

Believe it or not, we were contacted by the IRS wanting a share of a rollover investment we had made a couple years ago that actually played out into our favor. It seems the investor, unbeknownst to us, had tried to abscond with our money and leave us holding the bag. By working with them we were able to recoup all our money and they were able to descend on the thieves like a shark feeding frenzy. We even got a formal thank you note from one of the agents for our help. Had it not been for them we would have lost a major amount of $$$$$$. I know, this is not the norm. Possibly 1 in a million. But it did happen. Any time you here "We're from the government and we're here to help", you need to tighten the laces on your armor plated boxers.
 

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Devil is in the details. Nearly all of Romney's income isn't "income" by definition. Unlike most of us wage earners that get a W2 and have income taxes withheld, most of the tax he does pay is capital gains on investments. That tax is at a significantly lower rate than *our* income tax. It would be nice for everyone to be wealthy enough to avoid income tax by not being a wage earner but somebody needs to make the products and provide the services he enjoys - and make him his millions at the same time.

To add insult to injury, a plank in his party's platform is to eliminate the capital gains tax entirely. That way, we can pay more taxes so that he has to pay none! A great deal if you are Romney, not so good from my point of view.

Trust no politician!
Woody
 

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When I moved down from Canada last year they witheld $0.03 worth of interest in my savings account because they hadn't received my tax exemption form yet.

So...if they would withold 3 pennies, I'm sure they would go after hundreds of thousands of dollars from Mitt.
Sometimes (often?) bureaucracy exercises no common sense. My experience:

Was once given a 35 year old FG dingy with a 2.5 HP Wizard outboard motor. Since it was a boat with a motor (sort of!), I had to register it with the state. They passed the info to the local government which resulted in me getting a personal property tax bill. It was for several hundred dollars! I contacted the tax agency and explained that the tax bill was way over what the boat was worth. For some reason they thought I got a new bass boat... The asked me for a value and I gave them a reasonable answer (not much!). OK - they revised my tax bill. So far so good. But the new tax was for 26 cents. I called them back and explained that they spent more on the postage to send the bill than the tax itself, not to mention the processing costs. They lady told me they were following protocol - I paid the tax and the stamp to send my check was more than the tax; again, not to mention the administrative costs. Every year I repeated all of the above. Finally, after three years I connected with a different person. This person said that this @#$& was ridiculous and removed the boat from the tax records. No more 26 cent bills!

Woody
 

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To add insult to injury, a plank in his party's platform is to eliminate the capital gains tax entirely. That way, we can pay more taxes so that he has to pay none! A great deal if you are Romney, not so good from my point of view. Woody
So help me out here, Woody, is there a particular reason why we should be envious of or quick to "punish" those who have achieved a greater degree of financial success than we have? I mean, personally, I aspire to that kind of success and want to encourage it, not punish it. The bottom line is that poor people on welfare don't create jobs, successful people do.
 

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Good questions Bulldozer. My opinions:
1. I don't think Letterman knows what he's talking about. If we have strict HIPPA laws forbidding one to talk about medical conditions because it might harm someone's feelings, I can't see someone at the IRS telling Letterman who has and who hasn't paid their taxes.
2. The IRS would be after Mitt. Reason - because he was a potential opponent to obama in 2008. obama, in my opinion, is the kind of person who would not hesitate to attack any and all "enemies" with every means possible...including making opponents go through a grueling IRS audit, especially if it might lead to something they can use against them, regardless of whether it is true or not. Remember the journalist who rented the house next to Sarah Palin's home in Alaska, just to dig up dirt?
3. I believe Letterman does believe Americans are that stupid. Some are paying a low talent late night talk show host millions of dollars, way more than he's worth, so why wouldn't he think all other Americans are that stupid also?

P.S. If an IRS agent is reading this, my real name is John Smith and I live in Newark, New Jersey. See you soon.
 

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So help me out here, Woody, is there a particular reason why we should be envious of or quick to "punish" those who have achieved a greater degree of financial success than we have? I mean, personally, I aspire to that kind of success and want to encourage it, not punish it. The bottom line is that poor people on welfare don't create jobs, successful people do.
Not so much envious as preferring equal treatment. I think most of us contributing members of society aspire to be "successful" but not everyone can be "a basketball star". Paying taxes on an equal basis is punishment? Not IMHO, just fair. This situation is an example of the Golden Rule - Those with the gold make the rules (that favor them).

I agree that people on welfare don't create jobs, OTOH a lot of those "successful" guys got there by either buying, leveraging, and then bankrupting companies or sending the jobs to China. I don't think that helps the American people. _W_
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Not so much envious as preferring equal treatment. I think most of us contributing members of society aspire to be "successful" but not everyone can be "a basketball star". Paying taxes on an equal basis is punishment? Not IMHO, just fair. This situation is an example of the Golden Rule - Those with the gold make the rules (that favor them).

I agree that people on welfare don't create jobs, OTOH a lot of those "successful" guys got there by either buying, leveraging, and then bankrupting companies or sending the jobs to China. I don't think that helps the American people. _W_
So as an example , i make 100k a year > pay 35k in Taxes > plus pay all the taxes on everything else i do including whipe my a$$ > So i have 10k left, i invest it in stocks , win some and lose some over a 20 year period i somehow manage to make a few bucks , and you think i should pay MORE tax.... The problem is when is enough enough... How much do you want to work so the govt can waist your money....
I mean we got 2 guys in the White house that didnt even know it was dangerous in Libya cause the CIA didnt tell em so..... sheesh > I wonder how my *8th grader found out.......
Woody you are correct , i sleep so much better when village idiots are keeping me safe and spending my money....
 

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Devil is in the details. Nearly all of Romney's income isn't "income" by definition. Unlike most of us wage earners that get a W2 and have income taxes withheld, most of the tax he does pay is capital gains on investments. That tax is at a significantly lower rate than *our* income tax. It would be nice for everyone to be wealthy enough to avoid income tax by not being a wage earner but somebody needs to make the products and provide the services he enjoys - and make him his millions at the same time.
To add insult to injury, a plank in his party's platform is to eliminate the capital gains tax entirely. That way, we can pay more taxes so that he has to pay none! A great deal if you are Romney, not so good from my point of view.
Trust no politician!
Woody
Hello Woody,

I would like to give a scenario that more accurately describes the investment taxation of the rich.

The first thing we need to look at is how they got their "investment" money.

If they inherited it, the current Death Tax is at 35% but historically and as of 1.1.2013 it will again be 55%.
For this example we use the LESSER amount and assume they were successful in their profession and earned more than 338,000, and that it was subject to the marginal income tax rates currently 35%.

They take a portion of the 65% that the Fed let them keep, and invest/start a new business.
We will assume everything goes wonderfully and they show a profit the first year. Their new business will now pay a corporate rate of 35%(the highest in the industrialized world).

Now lets say that as owner of the company you want to spend some of the profits of your investment and hard work on yourself; so you take some of your money out of the company. This is capitol gains. There are a lot of variables but most people pay 15%, and we will use that in our example.

Our “rich” person does this for a few decades and builds his wealth to pass down to his family. Well, when he dies the IRS makes one last visit. Yes, the Death Tax (inheritance tax if you must).
In 2013 the rate is scheduled to return to 55%!

Now that his story is done lets look at the money trail.

He earns some money and the Feds take 35%
His company earns some profit on what is left and the feds take another 35%
He takes some of that out of his business and the feds take 15%
Finally, when he dies and wants to give the fruits of his labor to his children, the feds take 55%

35%
35%
15%
55%

I would hardly say that the “rich” aren't paying their fair share of taxes. It just doesn't get called “income” taxes.

Counter points:

*Yes, there are a lot of deductions that are unaccounted for in this example, the example only uses perfect scenarios and does not calculate risk.
It also does not count state, local, sales, regulatory, property, and a pack of other taxes too.

*It does not matter that Corporations are not solely owned, I am invested in my 401k. I consider myself and you too, (partial) owners of those companies. When they buy office supplies, that is money that cannot provide a return on my/our investment; same with the 35% corporate taxes they/we pay.

*Yes, there are tax cheats. Yes, they should be prosecuted.

*Yes, the tax code needs to be scrapped and re-written.

Scott
 

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Paying taxes on an equal basis is punishment? Not IMHO, just fair...
Oh, okay. Then on this I think we are actually in agreement as I'm all for lowering the top earned income tax bracket to 15% to match capital gains tax rate!
 

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Politicians are Politicians; red blue or whatever... when they aren't kissing babies, they are stealing their lollipops. In addition to the Pres position, there are 545 members of the house and senate. Not ONE of those guys from the top down could give 2 shyts about any one of us who don't have the desire or means to right them a fat 6 figure contribution check. They ALL fuk ya, its just a matter of if you want Grease with yours or not.

So enough politic'n... lets ride!
 

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No one wants to pay taxes but, of course, some tax money is required to pay for things we all need or enjoy like defense, roads, etc. and can't do as an individual.

I know we pay taxes more than once on the same income. It does not seem fair to me either but if only one tax was levied, someone (the feds) would then have to distribute (even more) funds to state and local governments who could not levy their own taxes. Maybe in theory this would be more efficient but in reality, it would be a train wreck!

One that bothers me is that if I give one of my kids over $13K (fat chance) from income that was W2 taxed, I am subject to again paying a tax on the gift pretty much at the same rate at which it was already taxed on the W2. Go figure.

There is no inheritance tax on estates under two million dollars. Perhaps there should be some conditions (There may be some - I have not studied the tax code that well). Something like a graduated tax with some percentage of exemption for special circumstances... That is for example, you inherit a small to medium business (not cash, stocks, bonds, etc.) or the family farm. These sorts of things should not be crippled or shut down to pay a tax bill. There I go (maybe) re-writing the tax code.

As long as *we* could support the national infrastructure, public safety, the armed services, etc., I would could sure go for 15% - As long as it was applied to all funds received (not just W2 income) without bias and exemptions. It would sure put more money in my pocket!

"*Yes, the tax code needs to be scrapped and re-written."

That is for sure, no argument there. For example... I can't remember where I read it so cannot verify, but somewhere buried in the thousands of lines this was reported (not an exact quote)...
"If you are a naturalized citizen, born in country (x?) on (a specific date), you are exempt from federal income tax."
Talk about specific loopholes!!!!

_W_
 

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Oh, in addition to politics I *did* go for a ride today. A group from work did about 150 miles, mostly on the Blue Ridge Parkway. The day was beautiful but the Parkway temperatures peaked in the low 40s - Brrr... Some leaves falling, but no significant color yet.

_W_
 
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