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Discussion Starter #1
I'm also a member of a sportsbike forum. Recently I joined into an ongoing discussion about lane-splitting, where motorcycles can be allowed to ride in between cars in their lanes.

I am dead-set against said practice but apparently about 85% of the participants in this discussion are for it. EVERY one of them are youngsters that didn't give a single, valid reason for doing this, in my opinion. They didn't want to wait in traffic, they were afraid of getting rear-ended if they waited in line with traffic, their bikes were air cooled and they needed to keep it moving, etc.

Truthfully, this bunch scares me. One even called for them to ride, not only defensively but offensively.

So what say you in this forum? One with a mix of younger and older people; this forum made up of all cruisers......
 

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Bumper-to-bumper, stop-and-go traffic does appear to be the universal signal for all nitwits to pull their cellphones out (if they haven't already done so) and begin fiddling with them.
In that sense, I can definitely see the advantage to keeping the 2 wheelers moving.
That being said, given what I've seen in states where it is legal i suspect that advantage would be offset by nitwits side-swiping motorcyclists and road-ragers playing lane vigilante.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Clearly, NONE of them are getting the points of my argument against it. Their universal reply is to make it legal and then there will be no problems. There are a lot of people in the cemetery that did everything legal and nothing wrong. But they're young, impatient, and immortal.

Nature has a way of removing fools from the gene pool...…………...
 

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Even with lane splitting being illegal it seems like cagers are out to get me sometimes. Squeezing in between them just seems to be courting trouble.
Not to mention how pissed I get when someone decides to pass without giving me my full lane.
 

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I do know and have encountered, many young riders who lane split
I have not met any "old" experienced riders who either practice or advocate such behaviour.

VN750Guy is absolutely correct with his observations of nature !
 

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I do know and have encountered, many young riders who lane split
I have not met any "old" experienced riders who either practice or advocate such behaviour.

VN750Guy is absolutely correct with his observations of nature !
I have seen several older riders who lane split in Georgia where it is still illegal. And they are just as reckless when doing it (going much faster than the prevailing traffic, and when traffic is moving smoothly at a fairly high speed, too). I have yet to see a single incidence of lane splitting in Georgia where the rider was using a reasonable speed or the traffic was moving slowly enough that it might be considered safe to perform lane splitting.

The lane splitting issue has taken off since U.Cal. Berkeley and the Cal. DOT released a lane splitting study. Even the authors of the report admit that the data was incomplete and insufficient to make hard conclusions, but the lane splitting proponents are off and running with it, claiming that it proves lane splitting is safe. It does not prove anything. The numbers they claim prove it are so small that they are almost certainly less than statistical error. They also only studied 2 counties out of the whole state. Yet some states are actually considering legalizing lane splitting because of this report. LUNACY!

I'm not saying lane splitting is unsafe. I don't know if it is or not. But passing laws based on such preliminary data is foolish. And once such laws get passed, it will be next to impossible to get them removed even if it later turns out that lane splitting is more dangerous than not lane splitting.
 

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This holier than thou, I don't do it so you shouldn't either and if you do you're an idiot attitude really pisses me off. If you don't have the skills to lane split, then don't do it. It's really that simple. When you obey every law, never exceed the speed limit and wear all gear all the time - then you can throw stones but until then SHUT UP about what others do.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Gary, that attitude seems to be rampant amongst the proponents of lane splitting (younger folks). And I might add, geographically speaking most are in California. You're missing several points to consider. In no particular order:

1) There seems to be a consistent talk of THEIR ability to do it. I make no particular argument as to a younger guy's reflexes and abilities being better than mine. The reality of nature is that we all, ALL slow down as we age. It seems that some were pissed off that I should even suggest that they haven't the skills when in reality I wasn't even thinking about that. What I WAS thinking about is that they are not the only people on the road and allllllllllllllllllll those other people sharing the road with them can't have their reflexes, won't have their impatience, won't be looking for someone to come zooming up within arm's length of them and therefore CAN (not necessarily WILL) react badly such as grabbing the steering wheel abruptly causing the car to swerve into them. Studies be damned.

2) There also is a curious reliance upon the law, in and of itself, making them ultimately safe solely because its the law. Yet every single person alive has seen street laws broken on a daily basis. When was the last time I broke the law when driving? Yesterday. Speeding, doing 40 in a 35. The law is not a Star Trek deflector shield. As I have said before, there are a lot of people in the cemetery that didn't break any law but are still dead. Reliance solely upon the law to keep you safe is ill-advised. I carry concealed any number of handguns that I own because the law won't matter when someone is intent on harming you.

3) Lanes are painted on streets for a reason. They provide orderly movement of vehicles, provide safe buffer zones between moving vehicles, and give guidance of where your position on the road should be in order to proceed safely, such as corners or making turns for example. If we allow lane splitting then all of that goes away. There may as well be zero lanes marked in the streets. Imagine the chaos that would ensue.

4) Dove-tailed to #3, above, is the concept of buffer zones and escape routes. A few folks uttered how ticked off they get when a cager cuts them off or otherwise intrudes upon their "zone". I fully agree with that. I get just as torqued off as the next guy when someone does something to block my escape route or simply doesn't take into consideration their rudeness. We all, all of us want to be able to have some "flex" room around us so we can maneuver if needed. So to willfully enter into a confined space between lanes, allowing no escape routes, filled with TONS of bone crunching metal, all moving their own separate paths, and with drivers that run the full spectrum of driving abilities from good to "should-have-lost-license-years-ago", seems to be illogical thrill seeking at best.

But, people will disagree for various reasons. This appears to be largely a generational thing. I used to think my dad was an OLD idiot. Now I know better. So you have the skills to do this. So what? So you think the laws will save you. Guess what? For every reason a person can think of to allow this, I can think of two reason or scenarios to counter. And I am limiting myself to two counterpoints.

In the end it doesn't matter what we in this forum or any forum thinks. We don't change the laws anyway. If California has this legalized on the books then its another reason for me to bypass California in my travels. I've driven in Seoul, Korea and its insane! I have no desire to be anywhere near that here in the world (military slang for the USA, for those of you that don't know/blast from the past for you that do know it)

So Gary if that is your thing and you think its ok then press on. Its your life. Driving/riding is a symbiosis thing. Its all the different type vehicles roughly going in the same direction, desperately trying to get from point A to point B without bumping into anyone else. Driving/riding is dynamic. There are changes and movements all around. Whenever any unexpected change is injected into the orderly movement then unexpected results happen. This issue is NOT a motorcycle issue. It is NOT about riding abilities. To rely on incomplete studies when your experience and eyes tell you different..... well, enough said.

Note: You didn't piss me off.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
This is a subject much like religion or politics. There will never be a "correct" answer because viewpoints differ so widely. I am just trying to see what the general populace here in this forum think about the subject.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I wonder if we have any motorcycle safety course instructors in here? I would like to have them chime in with their professional view on the subject. I'm also curious as to if the subject is addressed in their courses and if not, should it be added?

How about LEO's?
 

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If California has this legalized on the books then its another reason for me to bypass California in my travels.

So Gary if that is your thing and you think its ok then press on. Its your life. Driving/riding is a symbiosis thing. Its all the different type vehicles roughly going in the same direction, desperately trying to get from point A to point B without bumping into anyone else. Driving/riding is dynamic. There are changes and movements all around. Whenever any unexpected change is injected into the orderly movement then unexpected results happen. This issue is NOT a motorcycle issue. It is NOT about riding abilities. To rely on incomplete studies when your experience and eyes tell you different..... well, enough said.

Note: You didn't piss me off.
It's a little bit silly to say you're not going to California because they allow lane splitting. There are thousands of other reasons not to come here. And NO, lane splitting is not my thing (not that I haven't done it and don't still do it on occasion) but because, being retired, I don't have to drive in bumper-to-bumper traffic.

Don't for a minute think that California allows lane splitting because it is safer than sitting in traffic, they allow it because it's one less car sitting still on the freeway. Multiply that times the number of riders out there and it's THOUSANDS of fewer cars jamming up the system.

My only point is that just because you don't do something doesn't make someone who does an idiot. How many people do you know that think you're an idiot just for riding a bike?
 

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It's not my skills that I am worried about, but even in a small town I see the lack of skills, common sense, and basic understanding of traffic laws on a daily basis.
Since so many drivers don't seem to see us where we are "supposed to be" , how are we to expect them to see us where we aren't? All it takes is one angry or impatient driver making a hole shot kind of lane change to ruin someone's day. Every biker in the world would cry foul that the cager is at fault, but honestly would they be?
If lane splitting is your thing then by all means have at it.
Approximately 114,000 people in the United States are on the transplant list waiting for a donor organ. I'm not in a rush to give mine up.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
LOL, MisterG that was funny.

Gary, if you read back through what I said, starting from my initial thread opener, I used the word "idiot" once and that was in reference to my dad. (Whom I have since apologized to.) As far as not wanting to go through California I have a multitude of issues that I won't go into, but yes, now that its mentioned, this subject just adds another data point to my own, personal decision to take alternate routes. Not that I truly think I'll ever head down that way again anyway so really, its all moot.

Now that that is said, yes, in my humble opinion, the rationales for lane splitting are less than well thought out. But, as Patrick Swayze's character in the movie "Road House" once said: "Opinions vary."
 

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This holier than thou, I don't do it so you shouldn't either and if you do you're an idiot attitude really pisses me off. If you don't have the skills to lane split, then don't do it. It's really that simple. When you obey every law, never exceed the speed limit and wear all gear all the time - then you can throw stones but until then SHUT UP about what others do.
This is the exact attitude the OP is talking about and very typical with younger generations. Don’t get me wrong I was the same, but life had rude awakenings for me.

If this was something that affected the rider and ONLY the rider, then sure, do whatever floats your boat (like riding with or without a helmet).

I had a friend that was lane splitting, when a lane opening came up and a driver quickly went to change lanes right when my friend came along. My friend got thrown onto the guard rail and essentially sliced in half. The poor guy that simply went to change lanes not expecting a motorcycle to come between lanes had to live with that nightmare.

So inexperienced rides can take their chances and do things like that, OR they can choose to learn from others mistakes.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
By Cobra193: " If this was something that affected the rider and ONLY the rider, then sure, do whatever floats your boat (like riding with or without a helmet). "

And that interpretation is exactly what I was hoping would be made.

Thank you.
 

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Hello , I personally don't do it any more, altough it is legal here under certain circumstances (traffic should be stoped or going under 30 km/h about 18.5 m/h , and you cant go over 10 km/h , 6m/h faster than the traffic) , and yes I agree being legal does not mean safe , I was lane splitting one time with the traffic at a stand still and this guy opened his door without cheking and I plowed right into him luckily I was going rather slow and apart from a few scratches no real harm was done, lesson learned, but like so many other sibjects concerning motorcycle riding everybody has it's own opinion and has the right to act accordingly, you can only share your own experience and let everybody draw it's own conclusion.
 
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