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Discussion Starter #1
What is the news? Harley Davidson is going to build a 500 and 750 Bike for 2014. Talk about a step in the right direction! I am starting to like HD!
 

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BOTM Winner, December 2013
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lol they finaly decided to make their own "jap crap harley wannabe"
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Sorry

Sorry,

I missed the thread about the new Harleys a few weeks ago. I have logged on for a while, you see I traded my great little 500 Vulcan and went British.
I bought a Triumph America, which I love but I do miss my Vulcan 500.

I wonder if Harley is going to make the 500/750 in the USA?

Farscape
 

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Yes, those bikes are coming to the USA. They'll be built in Kansas City.

I'm a fan. They aren't the bike for me; too small, but I think they are a way better choice than a sportster for new riders and smaller riders (and those who just want smaller/lighter bikes). Since it's the overhead cam, Porsche designed 'revolution' engine, power will actually be pretty good compared to the rest of the H-D line. The engine is in the same family as the V-Rod, which is a 1200cc, 122hp liquid cooled V-Twin. That 1200cc engine is the most powerful engine in Harley's lineup, with the 110 cubic inch (1800cc) Big Twin being right at about 94hp stock. Dunno what the power numbers of the 500 or 750 are gonna be but that should give you an idea; the Revolution engine is a big power motor in a small package.

The biggest big twins do have more torque, by the way. Similar to the V2K which has a monstrously insane 142 lb/ft of torque, but less than 100 RWHP. The Revolution engine is just shy of 90 lb/ft (in the V-Rod, these new ones are smaller so we'll assume less). The 110 cubic inch Screamin' Eagle CVO engine, the most powerful engine Harley current makes from the factory (But at least they still make it- ahem Kawasaki) pushes out around 110 lb/ft stock. So while the revolution engine is less torque; it's not a LOT less torque ESPECIALLY for being 600cc's smaller. It's also a LOT more horsepower.

Long story short; the 500 and 750 Revolution engines are probably going to have power numbers that put them close to Harley's mainline Big Twin engines (96 and 103).
 

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they will most likely have the final assembly in kansas city... from 95% asian sourced parts....probably the real reason they built that big plant in India !!!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I thought.....

If Harley is building a 500, maybe it will make owning any 500 respectable again.
I always thought the Vulcan 500 was pretty respectable! But, I think in the world of big cc's the 500 will always be beginners bike or a girls bike! I like the smaller cc bikes because they sometimes and often they can embarrass the big bikes off the line.

the problem is they put the smaller cc engines are put in smaller framed bikes not really made for the average sized man.

What do you think?:cool:
 

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I really like my 500 (not that I haven't seriously thought about other bikes). I think the frame size is about right for the engine size and it feels comfortable to me. However, when I'd had the bike only a month, I had folks asking when I was going to move up. I admit that sometimes when people ask what bike I have, I'm almost apologetic in telling them. I just get the feeling that the general consensus is that it's just a starter bike you will "move up" from when you learn to ride. And I'm sure I eventually will; it's just a very good bike for what I'm doing now.
 

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Many older folks also like the smaller bikes because they are easier to handle. Due to wear or injury, many well used joints just dont work like they used to. When I got my Voyager, I was concerned about the extra weight for about an hour, but quickly got used to it. When I got back on my 800 after riding the voyager for a couple weeks, I was shocked at how much lighter it felt. Even my friend who rides a Sporty commented on how light the 800 is compared to his 883. Said it was to easy to toss around, he'd get in trouble on it. Lets hope Harley dont make these bikes any heavier than they need to be. If they do this and keep the quality up, they should sell alot of them.
 

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What is the news? Harley Davidson is going to build a 500 and 750 Bike for 2014. Talk about a step in the right direction! I am starting to like HD!
they are made in India and are exact copies of 70's honda shadows w/o shaft drives. I wonder if Honda will suit for copy right infringement, ya kno the "sound" only a honda can make.?
 

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Yes, those bikes are coming to the USA. They'll be built in Kansas City.

Dunno what the power numbers of the 500 or 750 are gonna be but that should give you an idea; the Revolution engine is a big power motor in a small package.

Long story short; the 500 and 750 Revolution engines are probably going to have power numbers that put them close to Harley's mainline Big Twin engines (96 and 103).





Read a review on the 750, and the numbers were quite close to the VN800's ...... But the reviewer also complained that the chassis was built way to small and cramped. .... Said it made the 883 feel big.
 

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they are made in India and are exact copies of 70's honda shadows w/o shaft drives. I wonder if Honda will suit for copy right infringement, ya kno the "sound" only a honda can make.?
They are definitely similar to the Honda Shadow.

But they aren't made in India, at least not the ones you'll buy here. If you buy it in the U.S., it'll have been made in Kansas City. Like lots of American companies; HDMC builds their bikes in the same regions they are sold. Bikes sold in India are built there. Some bad info got out on the interwebs that when they started producing those bikes in India (for folks IN India) that they were going to IMPORT them to the US; which isn't true.

Read a review on the 750, and the numbers were quite close to the VN800's ...... But the reviewer also complained that the chassis was built way to small and cramped. .... Said it made the 883 feel big.

Since they are so close to the Shadow I'm not surprised. My wife picked the Shadow over the 883 BECAUSE it was smaller, and she's pretty small.

The power numbers surprise me though. The revolution motor in the V-Rod is both Harley's smallest, and most powerful engine (before the new 500 and 750). I had high hopes for what is essentially a mini V-Rod motor.

I think this is a smart move for Harley though. Honda Shadow's are REALLY popular in the Harley crowd as a first bike, or as an alternative to a sportster for small riders. Tapping into that market, which isn't satisfied with the top-heavy and outdated Sportster, is very smart. Used to be you bought a small metric, then upgraded to a Harley. Nowadays, the small metric makers have really nice big metrics, so a lot of folks are just buying a big metric. Harley is trying to 'rope them in' sooner, instead of waiting for them to come later.
 

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I would love to see one of those 70's Honda shadows.... specially since 1983 was the first year of production.
 

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But they aren't made in India, at least not the ones you'll buy here. If you buy it in the U.S., it'll have been made in Kansas City. Like lots of American companies; HDMC builds their bikes in the same regions they are sold. Bikes sold in India are built there. Some bad info got out on the interwebs that when they started producing those bikes in India (for folks IN India) that they were going to IMPORT them to the US; which isn't true.

they will be ASSEMBLED in Kansas city from parts made in india and other Asian countries.......
 

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I would love to see one of those 70's Honda shadows.... specially since 1983 was the first year of production.
Either way they look an awful lot like my wifes 2011.

they will be ASSEMBLED in Kansas city from parts made in india and other Asian countries.......
If by "parts" you mean everything. Everything except for the frame, engine, etc.

They are building the engine and everything else in the KC plant. HD does import some parts (most electrical components, some metal work) but it's not 99% foreign parts like the internet likes to say.

The revolution engine was mostly developed in Stutgart, Germany (by Porsche); but it will be built here as it has been for years (the revolution engine is what's in the V-Rod)
 

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I would love to see one of those 70's Honda shadows.... specially since 1983 was the first year of production.
bw,, the 70's and 80's were all a blurrrr.. or maybe it was the drugs? yeah lets go with that one. poncho
 

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Either way they look an awful lot like my wifes 2011.



If by "parts" you mean everything. Everything except for the frame, engine, etc.

They are building the engine and everything else in the KC plant. HD does import some parts (most electrical components, some metal work) but it's not 99% foreign parts like the internet likes to say.

The revolution engine was mostly developed in Stutgart, Germany (by Porsche); but it will be built here as it has been for years (the revolution engine is what's in the V-Rod)
by parts I mean the majority of the components will be imported... then assembled in KC......the v-rod engine may continue to be built in the USA... and I use that term lightly as well as some research will show that many of those engine are imported....
people can continue to look at Hardley ableson through rose colored glasses if they wish.... but I can guarantee the "moco" didn't build a plant in india just to serve a market that is dominated by sub 500cc bikes with the largest being in the 250cc class .....
and if you think I don't know what I am talking about ... well I have unpackaged and installed MANY H-D parts including engine internals which were clearly labeled as coming form a foreign country!
 

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lol ponch the latter part of the 80's and the early 90's are quite blurry to me as well ;)
 

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by parts I mean the majority of the components will be imported... then assembled in KC......the v-rod engine may continue to be built in the USA... and I use that term lightly as well as some research will show that many of those engine are imported....
people can continue to look at Hardley ableson through rose colored glasses if they wish.... but I can guarantee the "moco" didn't build a plant in india just to serve a market that is dominated by sub 500cc bikes with the largest being in the 250cc class .....
and if you think I don't know what I am talking about ... well I have unpackaged and installed MANY H-D parts including engine internals which were clearly labeled as coming form a foreign country!
Guess it depends on the definition of 'majority'. The parts that HD imports don't come from their own factories; so they won't come from the India factory. They import parts from other manufacturers (like Mikuni carbs back before they switched to fuel injection. And now, their fuel injection is built by someone else.) The parts that come out of their factory stay in the country they are produced in.

And actually, the Harley Street series is projected to do well in India. It's priced much more aggressively there than here (half the price of a sportster there); and will mean that people can get into a 500cc or 750cc Harley-Davidson V-Twin for the price of their 500cc no-name chinese scooter. India is not this third world country that the media likes to portray either. They have a growing exotic car market; companies like Lamborghini, McLaren, Ferrari and Bentley are trying to figure out how best to serve those markets as well. For example, Bentley has started extending the back seats of certain models; because buyers in India and the middle east who can afford a Bentley don't drive their own cars (as opposed to Americans and Europeans who are rarely driven around unless it's a cab, executive limo, etc.) There's definitely poverty, but their economy is on the rise (who do you call when you need tech support!?), projections are that it'll do well.

These bikes have a ton of imported parts. But the frames are built here, the engines are built here, and it's all assembled here. In this day and age; if you don't call that "American made"; then there is no such thing as "American made". Actually, we lack the facilities to do some things. Intel is building a chip plant in Arizona, but other than that no American companies have the technology to produce the components that go inside an EFI or ABS module. Those HAVE to be imported. Emissions requirements are shutting down foundry's that cast the blocks and other metal parts, rubber is getting harder and harder to produce in the US due to various regulations, etc. So things like electronics, wiring, tires, hoses, engine blocks, etc., are being outsourced.

Plus, it's really hard for me to fall into the bandwagon (fallacy as far as I'm concerned) of criticizing Harley-Davidson for not being 100% american made when I ride a Japanese motorcycle.

BUT; I will certainly criticize people who bash MY bike for not being American made. And here's why! When Harley-Davidson needed a carburetor, they didn't go to American companies like edelbrock or Holley, nor did they produce and build their own. They bought cheap, Japanese, Korean and Chinese carbs because they figured they were just as good for a lot less money (I can't imagine what it would cost to commission Holley to build custom carbs for a short production of motorcycles). They chose an italian company for the brakes on their motorcycles (Brembo); instead of producing their own from the more expensive American performance brake company (Wilwood). And the list goes on. Is that a crticism of H-D? HECK no, because I do the same thing all the time. It's just a criticism of people who bash me for "not buying American". I bought a bike that I felt was just as good or perhaps even better, for less money; even though it was foreign made. Their beloved HDMC does that every day when BUILDING their American made bikes!

I don't fault HD for doing it, in fact I'm glad they do. The "truly" American made companies that have popped up from time to time have had price tags in the $40k range. Wilwood brakes, carbs and engines built entirely in America (no fuel injection, can't get it produced in the US); etc. etc. But I'll certainly remind the Harley faithful who are critical of my bike that the company that built their bikes thinks just like I do!
 
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