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Crikey comparing a HD With a Hyosung, that's erm different. More worrying the the Hi-ho-bung being considered better!! Heck that's a bit rough. Sounds like HD may have made a bit of a 'pig' of their new entry bikes eh. Bit of a shame really, could put off future buyers of HD's bigger products eh.



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Crikey comparing a HD With a Hyosung, that's erm different. More worrying the the Hi-ho-bung being considered better!! Heck that's a bit rough. Sounds like HD may have made a bit of a 'pig' of their new entry bikes eh. Bit of a shame really, could put off future buyers of HD's bigger products eh.



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I'm speaking holy sacrilege, and I know it's 'traditional' with them and all that, but when it comes to a new line of 'entry-level' bikes, Harley should just get off of the V-twin lockstep they're hopelessly stuck in and make a decent triple or four-cylinder machine to shake up the entire motorcycle world and perhaps even make a decently exciting bike in the process. Too bad if the aging Harley hardcore wouldn't like it, they won't be buying a 500 or 750 anyway.

Harley's 1960's Aermacchi-made machines were better looking and more interesting than their new efforts in this vein, and they were all singles.

Somebody from Harley should just go down the block and buy a Yamaha FZ-09 triple, take it back to HD R&D and develop a smaller version of it with their sticker on the tank. They've done it before, so what's the problem?
 

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I'm speaking holy sacrilege, Somebody from Harley should just go down the block and buy a Yamaha FZ-09 triple, take it back to HD R&D and develop a smaller version of it with their sticker on the tank. They've done it before, so what's the problem?
not naming names or anything but his initials are Willie G. until this dinosaur is dead and buried, nothing is ever gonna change over there.

Willie said they would never make a water cooled harley and stick an ugly radiator in the front.. so they make a porche motor and stick an Fugly dual windscoop bigger'n sno plow and think nobody gonna kno ther is a radiator in ther.. hardley ablesome
 
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not naming names or anything but his initials are Willie G. until this dinosaur is dead and buried, nothing is ever gonna change over there.

Willie said they would never make a water cooled harley and stick an ugly radiator in the front.. so they make a porche motor and stick an Fugly dual windscoop bigger'n sno plow and think nobody gonna kno ther is a radiator in ther.. hardley ablesome
I used to think that Willie G. was the one progressive thinker over at HD HQ going way back to the XLCR and all that, but it maybe he's the major roadblock to the MO-CO slithering out of it's box of never-ending re-hashed old sludge.
 

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Why would they change what they're doing if they're selling motorcycles by the freight car?
 
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Why would they change what they're doing if they're selling motorcycles by the freight car?
They're not selling these by the freight car. At least not yet.

I don't see how this apparently half-assed effort can compete with the offerings from the other major manufacturers. Oh sure, the dyed-in-the-wool Harley guys will put their wives and girlfriends on them (perhaps reluctantly over the 'real Merkin' 883's), but their name on the gas tank is only worth so much.
 

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They're not selling these by the freight car. At least not yet.

I don't see how this apparently half-assed effort can compete with the offerings from the other major manufacturers. Oh sure, the dyed-in-the-wool Harley guys will put their wives and girlfriends on them (perhaps reluctantly over the 'real Merkin' 883's), but their name on the gas tank is only worth so much.
Well, no - they aren't selling THESE by the freight car. But, when it comes to their other bikes that ARE selling by the minute, they have no reason to abandon their " . . . V-twin lockstep". The folks that buy those motorcycles WANT that. So, by shaking up their lineup, they'd be telling their most loyal customers that they don't matter. That wouldn't be very smart.

I really don't think these bikes are much more than an experiment, and if they happen to draw a few people that would otherwise have bought a V-Star 650, then so be it. This market isn't the market that HD is pushing for growth the hardest - their biggest advertising push in women, and especially in the Sportster lineup. These really small bikes are just testing the waters, I think. And the waters are frigid . . . nobody seems to want them.
 

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I used to think that Willie G. was the one progressive thinker over at HD HQ going way back to the XLCR and all that, but it maybe he's the major roadblock to the MO-CO slithering out of it's box of never-ending re-hashed old sludge.
wg being a product of the 60's and suffering amf humilation of the 70's came into his own in the 80's. progressive yes, take that old pos iron and make factory (60style) customs bilt on old skool design and tech. with his success he got stuk in the 60s and the herd bought his continual re'hash smoke in thier pipe.
finally forced to do something diff. it took porche to develop/refine the vrod motor and styling is just so butt ugly awful, wg sticking to his 60s gun with a fresh motor and most fuggly radiator shroud..wtf was this guy smoking? just put a dam radiator tween the frame rails, paint it black, most hardley guys cant see shit anyway.
now the wg krew is serving up old honda shadows made india for cheap. he sold his soul to the devil long ago
 
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Well, no - they aren't selling THESE by the freight car. But, when it comes to their other bikes that ARE selling by the minute, they have no reason to abandon their " . . . V-twin lockstep". The folks that buy those motorcycles WANT that. So, by shaking up their lineup, they'd be telling their most loyal customers that they don't matter. That wouldn't be very smart.
Well, I am speaking my piece here as a Harley-Davidson outsider, so I'm certainly not representative of their mainstream market, but over the past five decades, Harley hasn't sold me one bike....up to three weeks ago, that is, when I bought my first Harley-Davidson, a ten year old Sportster 1200R, but had they made a few models in the past that offered something a bit more substantial than 'heritage, noise, and blarney', I might well have bought a few of them by now, but I felt that I always needed to go elsewhere to get the kind of motorcycles I wanted, and I did, to the tune of almost fifty non-Harley bikes since 1966.

Harley can offer a multi-cylinder performance motorcycle every bit as well as BMW has done in the past. BMW is another company built around a classic, conservative, twin engine configuration, but they've managed to pull their heads out of their asses long enough to see that they can also sell singles, triples, fours, and now even a six, as well as their more traditional boxer twins.

Harley's core of grizzled old-timers aren't going to be around forever, and newer riders would almost certainly be more accepting of some variation of the hog template than the old guard is.

But they can probably get by just fine with how they're doing things now, they are undeniably successful, but I don't see why they have to make everything they produce a V-twin.

Triumph is another company that has been able to get right in there and compete with the Japanese with a line of modern touring and sporting multis right alongside their traditional vertical twins.
 

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they can probably get by just fine with how they're doing things now, they are undeniably successful, but I don't see why they have to make everything they produce a V-twin.
hardley quit making motorcycles,, they still sell a ton of em, but quit making them,, well since the 60s. they are more into making tee shirts and krome acc. as a commodities it sells very well and has been a good stock to have in yor portfolio.
 

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Well, I am speaking my piece here as a Harley-Davidson outsider, so I'm certainly not representative of their mainstream market, but over the past five decades, Harley hasn't sold me one bike....up to three weeks ago, that is, when I bought my first Harley-Davidson, a ten year old Sportster 1200R, but had they made a few models in the past that offered something a bit more substantial than 'heritage, noise, and blarney', I might well have bought a few of them by now, but I felt that I always needed to go elsewhere to get the kind of motorcycles I wanted, and I did, to the tune of almost fifty non-Harley bikes since 1966.
Oh, you and lots of other people that have bought other-than-Harley motorcycles. The Harley that I have no is my first one, as well. I've had lots of other motorcycles over the years, and for a while I was convinced that I didn't need a Harley, or that it wasn't worth the money, or any other of a long list of reasons that kept me from getting one. There's nothing wrong with that - everybody should get what they want!

Harley can offer a multi-cylinder performance motorcycle every bit as well as BMW has done in the past. BMW is another company built around a classic, conservative, twin engine configuration, but they've managed to pull their heads out of their asses long enough to see that they can also sell singles, triples, fours, and now even a six, as well as their more traditional boxer twins.
Harley Davidson certainly could offer such a motorcycle, just as Apple could offer a Windows-based computer every bit as well as Dell or HP has done in the past. But, from a business perspective, they have no need to. Their core market has no desire for it, and that market is going to continue to pay top-dollar for what they offer. Sure, they're going to make changes over time, just as they always have. But their classic look and design keeps a pretty loyal following that doesn't seem to be going away.

Harley's core of grizzled old-timers aren't going to be around forever, and newer riders would almost certainly be more accepting of some variation of the hog template than the old guard is.
They might be more accepting, but they wouldn't require it, or even allow that to influence their decision. I'm hardly what one would call a grizzled old-timer, but it would turn me off completely if they started trying new, "modern" stuff. I didn't buy a Harley because it had the newest technology out there - I bought it because I wanted what it had!

But they can probably get by just fine with how they're doing things now, they are undeniably successful, but I don't see why they have to make everything they produce a V-twin.
Because that's what we want! LOL!
 

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. . . they are more into making tee shirts and krome acc. as a commodities it sells very well and has been a good stock to have in yor portfolio.
Myth. Popular myth, but still a myth. LOL.


Twelve-Month Results: For the full year 2013, the [Motor] Company shipped 260,471 motorcycles to dealers and distributors, a 5.2% increase compared to 2012. Full-year revenue from motorcycles grew 8.0% to $4.07 billion, revenue from parts and accessories grew 1.5% to $873.1 million and revenue from general merchandise decreased 1.2% to $295.9 million, compared to 2012. Full-year gross margin for the Motorcycles segment was 35.4% and operating margin was 16.6%, compared to 34.8% and 14.5% respectively in 2012.


Source
 

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Harley does a lot of things right to sell bikes.

They have the cruiser market in their pocket and a big part of that is the "image" of it being the greatest motorcycle ever.

It's a lot harder to compete with an image than it is a product.

If HD started trying to compete outside the cruiser market it would be like saying that the foreign motorcycle companies were doing something right and would weaken the image.

Scott
 
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If HD started trying to compete outside the cruiser market it would be like saying that the foreign motorcycle companies were doing something right and would weaken the image.

Scott
Foreign motorcycle companies sure don't need Harley to admit that they (the foreign companies) are doing something right, it's been obvious to anyone who knows something about motorcycles for five decades now.
 
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I'm hardly what one would call a grizzled old-timer, but it would turn me off completely if they started trying new, "modern" stuff. I didn't buy a Harley because it had the newest technology out there - I bought it because I wanted what it had!
What "modern stuff"? Four-cylinder motorcycle engines have been around almost as long as twins, hardly the newest technology. And just because it took them 110 years to use some liquid-cooling in one of their engines doesn't exactly make them Jetson's material either.

Why can't Harley just keep on offering all or most of their old traditional models that you like, and develop something different for other riders?

I understand that Harley simply cannot compete with most foreign makers when it comes to innovation and performance, so they've conceded that portion of the market long ago (got their black eye on that matter in the early 70's) and are apparently content to sit back and feed their aging clientele different paint schemes on the same old stuff for as long as they can, but sooner or later, the mid-life crisis crowd buying their bikes now are going to moving into assisted care facilities.

I always wanted Harley to lure me off of my Japanese motorcycles with something that I just couldn't resist, but I know it's never going to happen.
 

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Foreign motorcycle companies sure don't need Harley to admit that they (the foreign companies) are doing something right, it's been obvious to anyone who knows something about motorcycles for five decades now.
It's not really about the foreign makers.It's the Harley image.

They don't sell more cruisers than anybody because their customers shop around and find the best bike at the best price.

They sell more cruisers because a LOT of the people buying them consider other manufacturers to be akin to lowly knockoffs.

Kinda like those politicians that don't have anything good to say about themselves; but have plenty of bad to say about the other guy.

If Harley ever acknowledged that the other guys weren't so bad; it would damage the image.


Scott
 

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Why can't Harley just keep on offering all or most of their old traditional models that you like, and develop something different for other riders?
Because it isn't a chunk of the market that they're after, I suppose. Just like my "Apple with Windows" example. Go into your local HD dealer and count the number of leftover 2012 and 2013 models. There aren't many.


I understand that Harley simply cannot compete with most foreign makers when it comes to innovation and performance, so they've conceded that portion of the market long ago (got their black eye on that matter in the early 70's) and are apparently content to sit back and feed their aging clientele different paint schemes on the same old stuff for as long as they can, but sooner or later, the mid-life crisis crowd buying their bikes now are going to moving into assisted care facilities.
LMFAO - no, there are younger folks that keep lining up! I'm right here. I'm not on Social Security, and won't be for quite some time!

I always wanted Harley to lure me off of my Japanese motorcycles with something that I just couldn't resist, but I know it's never going to happen.
That's OK - it's just not the bike for you. And, that's OK. I don't like sport bikes and Camas bikes. And, that's OK, too!
 

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The issue with this bike isn't even that they didn't build a good Harley, really. The issue is that they built a weak competitor for the India/Asia mid-size motorcycle market. Basically, Harley has stamped their name on an unrefined, unimpressive machine in an effort to pull more sales worldwide; small and mid-size bikes are not butt jewelry there as they are here, they are primary economical transportation. That nameplate will sell the bike to people who want to say they ride a Harley, which does work all over the world, but they're breaking into an established market with trusted brands already leading the pack. I don't think the image sale will be as effective overseas.

As for the number of big cruisers they sell, well...just because you're the most popular doesn't mean you're the best.
 
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That's OK - it's just not the bike for you. And, that's OK. I don't like sport bikes and Camas bikes. And, that's OK, too!
That's really not the case either though, they do make several very traditional 'retro' models that appeal to me strongly, certain Road Kings and the Deluxe to be specific. And I do currently own a Sportster XL1200R.

I like all manner of motorcycles, and even now own a variety of types and brands, including a GL1800 and a ZX14 besides my Vulcan 2000...and would have others but we're simply out of room for them (and I really can't afford more of the things either. :( )

I wish the best for Harley-Davidson, but personally, I'd just like to see them dip their feet into some new (for them) territory as well as keep making their traditional bikes for as long as they can.

I'd buy a Deluxe or Road King, but the name on the tank just isn't worth $15,000 more than what I paid for my used 2006 V2K Vulcan, which is a fine motorcycle and not one bit less of a machine than HD makes, and in some areas, even a 'better' motorcycle, price notwithstanding.
 
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