Kawasaki Vulcan Forum banner

Got a bad tick after oil change

8K views 33 replies 9 participants last post by  2007Vulcan2000 
#1 ·
So I have a 2004 VN2000 and I decided to do an oil change with some 20w50 mobil1 and a K&N filter. About 400 miles after the change, I developed a LOUD tick in the front cylinder head (I could hear it over the engine and wind noise on the highway doing 75, with full-face helmet and earplugs) after going on the highway for about 15 minutes.

I was feeling pretty despondent. I only have about 10k miles on my bike, and so I rushed home to try to do some research. After much reading, I decided I was most likely going to have to do a replacement of the HLAs and screens (a la the sticky here) but then I came across one post on another forum saying that it is very much worth trying to run some seafoam/magic mystery oil through the oil and see if that does anything to help. Figuring it was easier and cheaper than dropping the engine and replacing all those parts, I poured half a can of seafoam into my oil and ran it for 30 minutes. I was disappointed to hear that nothing changed. I also adjusted my idle set screw so that the VN2k idled slighly higher (it was set at a very low rpm by previous owner which I never changed. Sounded like a typical harley "potato potato" idle, which apparently is far too low for the Vn2k) I shut the bike off, and went to bed.

I wake up this morning, go out and fire the bike up again and let it idle for about 15 minutes. The ticking was just as present as yesterday, and i was feeling pretty depressed about the whole situation. I come back 15 minutes later and lo and behold, the tick is now at half-volume compared to before. Excited, I throw my leg over and take the bike out for a ride. 40 minutes later, I get back home (after running the bike pretty hard: high revs, hard acceleration etc) and the tick is gone. Just the sound of the stock exhaust and the quiet murmur of the HLA's gently running.

I am absolutely THRILLED with the seafoam treatment. I highly recommend it to anyone experiencing some valve noise. Be sure to let it run for a while, you won't hear any improvements right away.

In the future, I'm planning on switching the oil to rotella t6 5w40, I think the thinner oil should help get the oil all the way up through the rocker screens and whatnot.
 
See less See more
#3 ·
Yeti,

There was no noise prior, though I purchased the bike with severe neglect: the oil was pitch black, viscosity was unknown. I checked the manual, and it states that 10w40 and 20w50 are both acceptable weights. I found an awesome deal on the 20w50, which was why I opted for that at the time.
 
#4 ·
That's unfortunate the bike was neglected. Makes me wonder how much flow would be reduced with the prior lack of maintenance and the corresponding crap that could have been built up in the rocker arm filters. I've always run a high quality 10W-40 dino MC oil (Repsol first, now Maxima) and had no problems other than ticking for the first 20 minutes after pulling it out from winter storage while the HVA's pump up. The 20W-50 seems like a great idea for an air cooled bike with main bearings like those from a Harbor Freight utility trailer. With a liquid cooled engine (designed by engineers, not lawyers) and proper main bearings like you'd find in a CAT diesel or Keith Black Hemi, 10W-40 should be just fine even in the hottest of ambient temperatures unless you have it heavily stressed with very little air going across the radiator.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I put 20W-50 in mine once. The engine seemed to make more noise so I took it out. It's very, very rare to be hot enough around here to get past the top of the 10-40 temp range anyway. And, even in the summer, it's usually pretty mild in the morning for the heavier oil. In the rare occasion it gets that hot outside I'm probably in the A/C, not out riding in the blast furnace, LOL.
 
#6 ·
I run 20w-50 in the summer and 10w- 40 in the winter. I ride year round and pull a trailer. It gets pretty hot here in NC! Seafoam is wonderful but I would go ahead and change the oil if you haven't, seafoam is a detergent and even though it says you can just leave it in I would think it would cut down on lubrication some.
 
#7 ·
Thanks for all the advice guys! Unfortunately, I got the tick back. The motor was quiet and happy until I did a high-speed highway run for about 15 minutes, then the tick came back! Very disheartening.


I am currently warming up the oil as we speak. I'm moving to a 5w40 (rotella t6) and we'll see if it runs quiet and happy. How far is ok to ride to see if the tick goes away, after I change the oil?
 
#8 ·
I don't think you're actually going to damage anything with a tick unless you're keeping it at near redline for a while. The worse mine ever was it took almost 25 minutes of fairly mild riding to get it to stop ticking after the first fire up after being winterized for 5 months. I would think if you've not had it go away after 30 minutes of riding, it's likely to not go away on its own.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Low Oil Pressure

This stands out to the root cause of your problem:

I also adjusted my idle set screw so that the VN2k idled slighly higher (it was set at a very low rpm by previous owner which I never changed. Sounded like a typical harley "potato potato" idle, which apparently is far too low for the Vn2k)


Low Oil Pressure to the top end - Plus the mention of neglect.


Try some Marvel Mystery oil with a fresh Oil change 20W50 Castrol 4T - get rid of the Mobile1 - run it for a couple 100 miles. Marvel Mystery oil is a cleaner (Transmission Fluid, kerosene mix) - I would run for a longer term in the oil then Seafoam.

Just my 2 Cent opinion


:nerd::nerd:
 
#10 ·
Hi all my 2004 2k used to make that tapping noise sometimes it sound like a valve adjuster it would come and go, now at 60k miles i have not heard in a few years , how about the
cylinder decompression mechanism sticking ??? i add a little bit of marvel oil to keep things clean on engine/trans oil
good luck
 
#11 ·
Yeti, yeah, I think I'm going to have to drop the engine and replace the screens and whatnot :( The tap does not go away after any amount of riding time/rpm change, so I think that the tick is here to stay until I get into the top end, which means I don't get to ride for a while

Biebs: I just did an oil change today. I have the bike idling with some more seafoam in the crankcase (fixed the tick the first time around) and if this doesn't work, I'm going to just take the bike in for repair, as I don't have the lifts nor the confidence in my ability to replace the HLAs and screens.
 
#12 ·
Much as I like my VN2K, like many "metric" bikes they don't hold their value all that well.

If a shop has to do the repair it sounds like it could be a pretty expensive repair. May want to get an estimate then consider if it might be better just to run it until the wheels fall off, so to speak, as-is.
 
#13 ·
The shop I took mine to wouldn't do this repair (it's a dealership) because it involves altering a stock part (drilling the screen). And like you said, even if they did it would be very expensive. I did mine in about 15 hours over 2 days ( i wrote the sticky note at the top of this forum). I'm not Joe Mechanic, but I can turn a wrench. It's not a super hard job if you have the right tools. The only things that may be out of the ordinary are a decent lift and wheel chock, torque wrench(es) 1 for in-lbs and 1 for up to 80 ft-lbs and if possible an impact wrench that you'll use for about 30 seconds.
 
#14 ·
Whoru99: Yeah, I bought my bike for a steal, so I had figured that it was going to need some repair. The bike has ~9.5k miles on it right now, and I bought it for $2.7k. I put in about $1.4k in OEM Kawasaki Parts to get it back to stock, as well as new tires, for a grand total of $4.1k. In your opinion, would the repair be worth it with this much invested? Or am I beginning to exceed the value of the bike? A quick google search for V2ks with similar mileage and condition (mine is now in good to excellent condition) says that they are listed for around $6.5k, but I'm not sure if they are selling for that much.


Bill: THANK YOU so much for that write up, you've really help myself and I'm sure countless others keep their beasts on the road. How is your bike operating at this point? Is the fix still working? I think that if the work last for the "lifetime" of the motorcycle, I think I would be inclined to do it and keep the motorcycle. If not, I may just take whoru99's advice and try to sell the bike to someone a little more handy than I. I have finally finished all the work the bike needed, and was about to call her "done" when the tick showed up, so I think I could sell it with the tick for what I have invested at this point.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Whoru99: Yeah, I bought my bike for a steal, so I had figured that it was going to need some repair. The bike has ~9.5k miles on it right now, and I bought it for $2.7k. I put in about $1.4k in OEM Kawasaki Parts to get it back to stock, as well as new tires, for a grand total of $4.1k. In your opinion, would the repair be worth it with this much invested? Or am I beginning to exceed the value of the bike? A quick google search for V2ks with similar mileage and condition (mine is now in good to excellent condition) says that they are listed for around $6.5k, but I'm not sure if they are selling for that much.


....
Checking Craigslist, I see a few somewhat local examples at asking/listed prices $4500-5000. But, they typically have more miles on them, ~20k to ~40k. OTOH, also sounded like they had some aftermarket goodies on them too...seats, etc.

You're right at the point where it's a tough call. If you did the work yeah. A shop, mmm... dunno.
 
#16 ·
Bill, that's terrible! I read through the whole thread. I assume you got a new V2K since you're still part of the forum? I think you've convinced me to do the "Braske Repair" I've ridden a lot of other cruisers, and none of them have spoken to me like the Vulcan 2000.

I assume you're waiting to do the HLA repair when/if your new vulcan starts it's ticking?
 
#21 ·
Do you already have a ballpark price from at least a couple shops? Might not be a bad idea just to make sure you know what kind of $$$ you're in for if/when you take it in for surgery. Who knows, a dealer might not want to touch it and price it accordingly and a local shop that has experience inside these particular motors (long shot, I know) might be surprisingly reasonable.
 
#22 ·
Yeti: I've put out the ask to a couple different shops, however, none have gotten back to me over the weekend. I have also asked one guy who is recommended to me by a friend who has a full garage and does work independently.

How much should this theoretically cost? Bill quotes at around 16 hours, but I feel like this could be done in much less time by an experienced mechanic with all the proper tools/lifts/jacks...

Also, I need to purchase 8HLAs, 2 intake rocker shafts, 2 exhaust rocker shafts (though he says that was unnecessary) rocker cover gaskets and I'd most likely do the spark plugs as well while everything is open and easy to work on.
 
#24 · (Edited)
...

How much should this theoretically cost? Bill quotes at around 16 hours, but I feel like this could be done in much less time by an experienced mechanic with all the proper tools/lifts/jacks...

Also, I need to purchase 8HLAs, 2 intake rocker shafts, 2 exhaust rocker shafts (though he says that was unnecessary) rocker cover gaskets and I'd most likely do the spark plugs as well while everything is open and easy to work on.
At face value the parts you mentioned, alone, are roughly $1000.

I'd figure $100/hr for labor just in case.
 
#23 · (Edited)
I have absolutely no idea what it would cost to have someone do it, I do know if I had to have it done, I'd be doing it myself and I'd budget significant time to do so, not only to document it but I'd only have an hour or two at a time to sneak to the garage to work on it. When I was working as a Honda tech at a dealership between 04' & 07' shop time went from $70/hr. to 75/hr. I do question the need for rocker arms and shafts, I'd certainly know where to get them, lead time & price but wouldn't order them until I had a chance to inspect mine first. I would make sure I'd have 8 new HLAs ready to go, that and new spark plugs would be it until it was certain more was needed. I'd trust reusing the gaskets if they didn't get torn from the rocker covers during disassembly.
 
#26 ·
Whoru96: yikes, I didn't realize that it was that much for parts alone. Bill says that the exhaust rocker shaft can be skipped, so I'm inclined to do so for that. I do think I'd rather replace all 8 of the hlas and drill out all 4 of the intake rocker shaft screens. I suppose I'd just check the sparkplugs before replacing them, because this was definitely more expensive than I was anticipating.

Bill Braske: then that means it's probably a 26 hour job for me D: I have very little experience working on bikes. To me, doing a clutch pack replacement was a BIG job on my old bike, and this seems infinitely more complicated. A big part of my reluctance to try this is my lack of tools (I have a 144 piece handtool set) and my only "lift" is 2 1x4s bolted together with a galvanized steel pipe as a handle that I use to lever the rear tire off the ground.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Dunno there is any real guarantee of anything, but I'd guess any number of "tickers" probably have been driven farther than that with no additional damage done.

To me "safe" is not directly about whether or not the bike might be damaged, its about the likelyhood that you or a bystander will be seriously injured or worse. So, in that regard, I do not consider this a safety concern.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Probably too late, but I've always heard that riding it with the clatter won't hurt anything. I put quite a few miles on mine with it. It's just nerve-wracking and even embarrassing.

And there are only 2 intake rocker shafts, so that will help ;)

I too, opted to do all 8 HLAs knowing that probably only 1 or 2 (if any) were bad. I did the gaskets too, but they're kind of an o-ring looking thing and mine looked fine coming off. I wouldn't have had a problem re-using them, but I already had the new ones.
 
#31 ·
Gotcha Bill,

Well, I took it into the shop to have them do a "confirmation" of the problem, and they listened to it and of course, the sound stopped. They did an oil change (from Rotella T6 5W40 to Mobil1 10W40, because they didn't like the lower weight oil in the bike) but the ticking had completely stopped. I picked it up, and ran it HARD to see if anything would bring the tick back and I haven't heard it yet. I think the Seafoam treatment helped (honestly) and it just took some time for it to sit and work on the buildup. Thank again Bill for all the help. I plan on doing the Braske treatment as soon as I need to open up the engine for anything (or if the tick comes back again, I'll just do it to get it over with) but for the time being, I'm going to enjoy the bike and hope it doesn't tick for tens of thousands of miles.
 
#33 ·
My experience is the first approach for them locally was to drain about a quart of oil from the bike and refill with a quart of ATF. They then ran the bike down the interstate hwy at a rapid speed, until the tick subsided. Then they changed the oil, going back to a dino 20-50. I could hear the tick though faintly after picking the bike up. I added some of that Shelby micro lube sold at walmart Z-Max. The tick disappeared, the engine was quieter that ever. However, it didn't last. A few hundred miles later away from home the tick returned. I rode it back. The repair at a Kawasaki shop is about 3300.00. It has lasted. The cause is the sealant between the cases at assembly squeezed into the oil crankcase and eventually broke loose to contaminate the HLA's. They don't want to admit to that, but that is what their factory trained mechanic told me.
 
#34 ·
I just bought a 2007 vn2000 classic lt with 15k miles gambled on it. Valves in front making a ton of noise. Half a bottle of Lucas tune up in a bottle and half a bottle of the marvel mystery oil. Let her sit for 30 mins in the garage idling. The banging is gone! Oil changed again now with a cup of marvel mystery oil. Bike is amazing again!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top