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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone installed a Power Commander or something along those lines? I remember seeing a more "on the fly" tuner installed on here before, but I'm looking for more of a "piggy-back plug and play" kinda scenario. Looking at getting one of the Delkevic exhausts later this year but have convinced myself I need a PCV or something like it first to prevent running too lean of an Air/Fuel Ratio, not to mention being able to reduce some of that engine braking.

The Power Commander V is the only system I've been able to find thats basically plug and play but I don't like that it doesn't read the O2 sensor at all. The PDF actually tells you to unplug it and plug a "O2 Optimizer" in, which looks to be nothing more than a wire to close the loop. Seems to me like this would still cause poor Air/Fuel Ratios if you say... ride through a range of elevation change (which I do... a lot). Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, if so, tell me. You can get add-ons for it that will make it read from a new O2 sensor... if you want to pay twice as much just for that one feature. It just seems like that should be a part of it from the get go.
That said I know there are other companies making similar products that do everything the PCV does and they actually read the O2 sensor too and make adjustments based on that, all for less $. (which is want I want, for multiple reasons). Being able to change the stock map and then fine tune based on what sensors that are already in place are reading just seems right. I just cant find any that are actually making a system for the Vulcan S. Starting to wonder if I could get the Versey's or ER-6N equivalent and make that work, though I doubt the stock ECUs are the mapped the same.

Again, I know basically nothing on the subject and would appreciate being corrected / better informed if anyone here has a better knowledge of this stuff. At this point I know just enough to know that if I change to much and the AFR goes too lean I can do serious damage, which is obviously what I'm trying to avoid.
 

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I'm curious about this myself. I put on the Two Brothers exhaust and I assume it is working correctly as I have no engine light but if the AFR is too lean I don't think it would throw a code.
 

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actually read the O2 sensor too and make adjustments based on that,

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Your stock system already does that, so I am not sure what you are looking for.

The O2 sensor "fooler" is just that...makes the ECU think that fuel trim is OK when it really is not and also stops the FI fault indicator from coming on.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
To my understanding the stock ecu will use the O2 sensor to change AFR up to a certain percentage (usually 10%). However if you change exhaust, which is the reason I'm looking at a controller, it may require more than a 10% change.
The Auto-Tune made for the PCV for example, works by making adjustments up to 20%. You can then accept those adjustments, make that the new startup map, then start working the percentage change back down to a factory level.
I don't know what percent our stock ecu's adjust to, if it's a high enough number then cool, no controller required. It's just the not knowing that gets me. I have no experience with this kind of thing but considering the state of my local shops I'll be learning as I go. Any knowledge from anyone with more experience than myself (so... everyone) is appreciated.
@mmelaney did you notice any changes other than the sound? Engine braking, throttle response?
 

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When the system is in closed loop, meaning it is taking readings from the O2 sensor (usually part throttle cruise only) the sensor monitors exhaust gases for about 14.7 to one ratio. That ratio provides the most power with the least amount of fuel and least emissions.

If you piggyback a processor that ads fuel, the O2 sensor will sense that and try to dial back the stock fuel injection to correct. That is why you must bypass the stock sensor or you might get an FI light.

If you want a system, but still retain the stock O2 sensor, when in closed loop, you will not gain anything.
The O2 sensor will always want 14.7 and it will command (or try) the ECU to satisfy that requirement.

Now, if you modify the engine enough so that the O2 sensor wants 14.7, but the ECU cannot trim fuel enough due to map restrictions, then you have a problem. You need an EGA on an absorption dyno to find that out.
 

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To my understanding the stock ecu will use the O2 sensor to change AFR up to a certain percentage (usually 10%). However if you change exhaust, which is the reason I'm looking at a controller, it may require more than a 10% change.

The Auto-Tune made for the PCV for example, works by making adjustments up to 20%. You can then accept those adjustments, make that the new startup map, then start working the percentage change back down to a factory level.

I don't know what percent our stock ecu's adjust to, if it's a high enough number then cool, no controller required. It's just the not knowing that gets me. I have no experience with this kind of thing but considering the state of my local shops I'll be learning as I go. Any knowledge from anyone with more experience than myself (so... everyone) is appreciated.


@mmelaney did you notice any changes other than the sound? Engine braking, throttle response?


I haven't noticed any real difference in performance. Obviously I do in the sound.

For any one wondering, it's not quite "Harley Like". It's more raspy and it kind of pops a bit on rapid engine breaking.

I'd love to know how to tone down the engine braking. If you figure that out I'll do it in a heartbeat.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Thanks for the additional info @sfair I just couldn't connect the dots in my head and you've definitely helped me make sense of it.
@mmelaney I want to say that I remember reading somewhere that the PCV helps with the harsh decel, but I couldn't tell ya where at this point, it may have been a tuner in general kinda thing. That and the slight jerk when getting back on the throttle. I've heard its all due to emissions and fuel consumption voodoo-ery.
 

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I've installed the Two Brothers exhaust and the PCV on my 2015. This is going on about 4 or 5 months now I believe. To answer a couple of questions I saw here: I live in Houston, which is at sea level. After I had installed the PCV I made a trip up to the mountains in New Mexico. As far as elevation and temperature variation I did not notice any issue with my bike. I also saw a question regarding engine braking. I haven't noticed any reduction in this, depending on gear. For the PCV it's like a lot of piggyback systems, meaning you save your base map and download preset maps from the website. I am unaware of what the flexibility is with the system as far as writing or altering a map. If anyone has any questions, please let me know.
 
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