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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2010 Voyager with V&H slip ons, Thunder Air Kit with the original cover, Cobra FI 2000 and Ray's throttle mod on a set Kuryakin ISO Grips. I am considering switching to a PCV this winter and was wondering do I need the auto tune option. I was searching the web today looking at the PCV's and found a Dynatek 3000. Does anyone have experience with the Dynatek 3000? How does it compare to the PCV? I know that there has ben threads on the PCV, but I have never found one for the Dynatek 3000. Thanks for all responses. BTW, I think Ray's throttle mod has been the best mod yet. I wish I had done this as my first mod.
 

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Big Reyn.
I just installed a PCV with Autotune. There are numerous maps that people on here are very generously willing to share. I decided to install the Autotune so the bike will constantly adjust to conditions based on what the O2 sensor is reading. I started my adjustments at 20% and have been reducing that percentage as it fine tunes. If I make changes, like adding a big air kit, the Autotune should be able to adjust my base map. That's what I'm hoping anyway.

Frank
 

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I have a 2010 Voyager with V&H slip ons, Thunder Air Kit with the original cover, Cobra FI 2000 and Ray's throttle mod on a set Kuryakin ISO Grips. I am considering switching to a PCV this winter and was wondering do I need the auto tune option. I was searching the web today looking at the PCV's and found a Dynatek 3000. Does anyone have experience with the Dynatek 3000? How does it compare to the PCV? I know that there has ben threads on the PCV, but I have never found one for the Dynatek 3000. Thanks for all responses. BTW, I think Ray's throttle mod has been the best mod yet. I wish I had done this as my first mod.
Well first of all the Dynatech 3000 is for carbureted bikes only, so scratch that of your list right now.
The PCV comes in three ways. First is the PCV fuel only, then you have a choice of PCV with ignition, which means you can change the ignition timing as well as fuel maps. Then the last PCV with autotune, and like Frank said you can make fine adjustments from what the autotune is telling you. The PCV by itself runs under $300 and like Frank said I would send you the map that I'm using and I'm sure he would too. Or you can pay more and get the autotune which doesn't mean it automatically tunes. You have to make the adjustments with a laptop and you have to weld a O2 sensor in your pipe. There are pictures in this forum. So think it over carefully before you decide.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Davidsheek, which version are you using? Do you think the autotune is worth the additional money? I'm asking questions so I can make the most informed decision. Thanks

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Davidsheek, which version are you using? Do you think the autotune is worth the additional money? I'm asking questions so I can make the most informed decision. Thanks

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In 2009 I started out with the PCV and liked it just fine. It did everything it was supposed to do. Just recently I decided to sell that one and get the PCV with ignition because of what Racnray said and the fact that I always felt that these bikes could use some help in that department. But keep in mind advancing the ignition can be very dangerous to your engine unless you know what you're doing.
Personally I would not get the autotune because good maps are available here on the forum. But if money is not a problem then I think you cannot go wrong.
 

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David Sheek,
You said the Autotune doesn't mean it automatically tunes. My understanding is that if you have the Autotune installed it adjusts while you ride based off the maps and the percentages you have set. Am I wrong?

Frank
 

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David Sheek,
You said the Autotune doesn't mean it automatically tunes. My understanding is that if you have the Autotune installed it adjusts while you ride based off the maps and the percentages you have set. Am I wrong?

Frank
That's my understanding too. You can put limit(s) to how much you allow Autotune to trim up/down from the base map, but trim within those limits it does, on the fly, afaik. If Autotune doesn't "auto tune" then what's the point?

I have seen a few people splitting the cost of an Autotune setup, then each person uses it for a while to get things tweaked in, then passes it on to one of the others.
 

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I'm just going by what I read in the past. I could be wrong but I thought you had to accept the suggested map from the autotune. Now I can find out for sure really easy with a little reading on my part if you like. Maybe someone that has had an autotune for a good while will read this and give us their thoughts.
 

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I think this is a very interesting topic. Way I read it is that you only have to save in two cases.

1. If you want to write the Autotune values to the base map/different map, or
2. if the Autotune values are greater than 20% change and more is required.

In the case of #2, say for extreme example that Autotune determines a 50% change to some value(s) is necessary. It can only do 20% max at a time. So, you'd have to accept the first 20%, save that, then allow it to do another 20% to that map, save that, then either save the final 10% or just allow it to Autotune around that point. Could be wrong, but that's my interpretation of it.

EDIT: The later part about the max trim isn't quite right. The system will allow only +/- 20% max trim on the fly/by itself, but apparently you can manually accept/write larger values from trim table to a fuel map/table.
 

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That's what I was thinking. I took Power Commanders Map for VV with Vance and Hines Slip-Ons and Stock air filter. My initial adjustments were 20% for both lean and rich. I would ride, accept trims and then repeat the process. Once I did that several times I started lowering my trim percentage. Have it now at 10% rich, 5% lean. My understanding is the Autotune will automatically adjust on the fly based on the map you have saved and the trim percentages entered.

Frank
 

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It says right here that you have to get and accept the trim tables. Then you have to transfer them to the fuel map. Well, here is a copy and paste right from the manual. I'm just saying that it doesn't do everything automatically.

After a riding session you can view the Trim table by clicking on the respective table in the tree view and clicking GET TABLE. To accept these trims and transfer them into the Fuel map click on Auto Tune - accept trims. This will zero out the trim table(s) and add the trim values to the base map(s).
The PCV is configured to only allow the software to trim +/- 20% until you manually accept the trims. You can alter these limits in the Auto Tune configuration. The more the PCV learns the lower you can make this value. By lowering this value it will work as a safety net so if something should go wrong in the unit or bike it will not cause the bike to run poorly.
 

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I understand what David is saying that you have to accept the trims and send them via a laptop. But it also adjusts on the fly based on the map and setting installed.

From Power Commanders Website:

"Well, how does it work and what does it do for me?"
We have taken virtually the same technology that our patented Tuning Link dynamometer software (for automated Dyno tuning) uses, along with Bosch Wide Band O2 sensors and miniaturized it to be used on your bike, ATV, or UTV, while you ride.
Once installed, the Auto Tune kit monitors the fuel mixture (by installing the included Wide Band O2 sensor in the exhaust). It then sends this information to the Power Commander V and automatically corrects it while you ride. Each map that we offer has preset Air/Fuel ratio values included that we find to be the best overall settings. This lets you simply plug in the unit and let it do the work. For Harley Davidson models we ever monitor and adjust each cylinder individually for increased precision as on these models required fueling can vary significantly between the front and rear cylinder.
For advanced users that would like to change the Air/Fuel ratios from our baseline they are fully adjustable. Each throttle opening/rpm combination is individually adjustable, so that you can have both fuel economy, during cruise, while maintaining peak output at larger throttle openings. For most models of bikes it is also possible to adjust the Air/Fuel ratios "per gear". This gives you total control of the fueling in every gear and throttle/rpm area if required.

Frank
 

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Hmmmm, confusing isn't it? On one side you have to accept and the other side sounds like it's fully automatic. I don't have it but it sounds like it does both.
 

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Yup, that's my understanding. If you want to write the trim values to a map then you do what David says. Otherwise, during Autotune operation, it constantly/on-the-fly tries to maintain the AF ratio to what you have set up in the AF ratio table using the loaded map as a starting point for the fueling.

You can see the trim values (difference between loaded map and Autotune calculations) in the trim table as to what its been doing, but you don't have to write them to a map if you don't want to. Regardless of whether or not you choose to write the trim values to a map, Autotune is adjusting on-the-fly to the AF Ratios you have designated.
 

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Yup, that's my understanding. If you want to write the trim values to a map then you do what David says. Otherwise, during Autotune operation, it tries to maintain the AF ratio to what you have set up in the AF ratio table using the loaded map as a starting point for the fueling. You can see the trim values (difference between loaded map and Autotune calculations) in the trim table as to what its been doing, but you don't have to write them to a map if you don't want to.
OH ok, that makes a lot more sense as to the different things we're reading.
Thanks for the clarification. I like the technology there but wouldn't want to weld the O2 sensor into the pipe. Especially since I'm having such good luck with the PCV with ignition. Without a doubt I could probably get better gas mileage with the autotune. But honestly it wouldn't be worth it to me because of the cost of the unit. I mean two or 3 miles per gallon isn't anything because I write mostly local here. Now for those that take lots of trips or put 10 to 15,000 miles in a year it definitely would help in the savings of buying fuel. So it would be does one just wanted or need it?:)
 

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Further, in theory, if your operating characteristics were static enough, eventually through the process of writing Autotune trims to the map, you'd eventually get to the point were the trims were all zeros, no changes to apply to the map, then Autotune really wouldn't be doing anything.

I doubt the conditions for anyone are static enough to get zero trims across the board but, at some point, unless something dramatically changes, additional trimming is probably just more for the tweaker in us than of any rmeaningful performance improvement.
 

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Also, to clarify, I do think it is the right approach to write the trims to map because the closer you are to the target from the get-go then the better/more stable overall things are going to be.
 

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Also, to clarify, I do think it is the right approach to write the trims to map because the closer you are to the target from the get-go then the better/more stable overall things are going to be.
Yes that would be correct now that I understand this a lot more.
Hope all of this helps " Big Reyn".
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks for all the help, although I think I'm now even more confused. I think I'll get the PCV along with david's maps first and go from there. For even more confusion how does Cobra's processor with auto tune compare to the PCV. I plan to switch this winter and want to make the best possible choice.

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Thanks for all the help, although I think I'm now even more confused. I think I'll get the PCV along with david's maps first and go from there. For even more confusion how does Cobra's processor with auto tune compare to the PCV. I plan to switch this winter and want to make the best possible choice.

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Well I for one have NO confidence in the cobra FI products as there is no O2 sensor for it to get its information from. I have heard far more downer stories on their products than positive ones. I have a friend that use to have a VV and helped him to install the new COBRA PowerPro thing.lol that was supposed to be all everything. There's no way that thing can do what it claims especially with no O2 sensor. He was not a happy camper.
If anyone wants to listen to me I would advise to stay away from those products.
 
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