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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I picked up a bike that was run when the oil light came on after oil change and the engine quit/seized. I'm about to strip the engine and was wondering if anyone has done this before? What should I look for, top end or rings bearings?
Is it worth re building? thanks
 

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Before you tear down the engine,
you had said you just got the bike, did the prior owner tell you the engine is seized? Have you tried turning the engine manually? You could try removing the spark plugs and spraying a little wd40 into the cylinders. Let it sit for a while and then try manually turning the engine by using a 17mm socket (through access plate, left side of engine near oil fill cap). If you can get the engine to manually turn, you should be able to get it to crank over. If you get it to crank over, then do a compression test on each cylinder to see if there is ring/piston/cylinder damage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the replies. the engine is out and on a bench. When last rode the engine was smoking and had poor power and the driver barely made it home. I have the cams off now and will pull the heads soon. No compression test was done.
 

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Keep in mind that it also means the transmission and clutch assembly were ran without oil. It all uses the same oil. In my opinion if you find any internal damage apart from rings, junk the engine and buy a donor. Just rebuilding the transmission can cost more than the bike is worth. And that's assuming the case isn't damaged. If it really seized due to lack of oil, the bearing passages are probably damaged and the block may not be serviceable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for your input, there was oil in the engine but after the bike fell over the light came on and it was ignored and driven till the engine quit. After the filter was losened and engine cranked the light went out. Bike was then driven about 70K (40 miles) till it started to lose power and smoke. Removed from bike at this point.There was oil to drain when on the bench.
I might have the heads off tomorrow.
 

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2006 Nomad 1600
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Take a really close look at the cams. If the engine was run till is froze up well....

The KACR might be damaged as well.

At this point you should be able to get a gallon of kerosene and flush the engine out by just poring it into each valve area.
Leave the oil drain plug out and just flush all that old stuff out a few time. You should be able to just reuse the kerosene a few times taking care to only use good fluid and not metal bits.

Good luck and keep us posted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The 800 has no KACR. I'm not sure if you're kidding about the kerosene flush or not but in my opinion it's not good advise. How is this going to fix bad rings or bearings? Cams look good.
 

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Kerosene and diesel are used to break engines loose after they sit. It breaks up rust and lubes everything. It won't help if the engine was damaged due to a lack of oil. And the 800 doesn't have compression release.

You never mentioned that the bike was dropped. These engines use valve shims to keep the lash in spec. If one of them was knocked out it can cause a bike to either stop running or run extremely poorly. Exactly how much oil drained out? You should have done compression and leak down tests. You may not have needed to pull it. If those tests come back in spec then you probably have a top end problem or even just a fuel issue. Dropping a bike can cause a carb float to raise all the way up and stick. If the smoke was black and the plugs are black then you were just getting too much fuel and all it needed was carb work. If it was blue and the plugs are oily then the rings/walls/seats/seals are shot and you're going to need to decide if a $1500 bike is worth fixing.

You can buy nice 800's for less than 2 grand that run and look good. One that needs an engine is pretty much a parts bike worth less than a grand unless you have a wrecked bike with a good engine to swap. If it's just rings then that isn't a big deal. But I don't think ever seen a bike that only had bad rings. If the rings are bad then usually the walls are bad and the bearings are shot. If the walls are bad then you're going to need to ream them. That's not an easy thing to do without the proper machinery. It all goes back to how much is that bike worth to you?

It isn't too late to do a compression test. Just bench jump the starter. If it has zero compression then you're probably looking at valve seals or seats. Not a big deal. When I'm doing compression tests on non-runners I prefer to see zero compression than low compression. Zero is usually easier to fix unless there is a hole in the piston.
 

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Coleface, yes not kidding about flushing the engine. I had a 07 KLR 650 that nuked the cam because of low oil from the PO. Flushing the engine a few times or until I no longer saw bits coming out really help. I felt more confident on the rebuild and that the engine would not just blow up again because something I missed.

I kept the oil plug out and flushed it. I also had the jugs off it so I was able to direct some high pressure air into some places. I would do that with caution as it could put bits of stuff in places it should not be. So do that part with caution or maybe not at all.

Bottom line, if the engine stopped running from lack of oil (or with my current project really bad old oil) there might be other things broken in the engine. For sure it it ran out of oil, the oil that was in there was dirty, nasty and full of stuff. There will be sludge in there, and flushing that out so that you can have a good working engine after the rebuild is a good idea.

A very short run of the engine after the build I would change out the oil and filter too. You will have to decide what that time or distance it.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for the replies. As I said the bike was knocked over sitting in the driveway and the oil light came on. Apparently this engine is susceptible to the oil pump scavenging at oil change or if dropped. I have a manual and am fairly mechanical. I did see the valve shims in the manual but saw none when I took the cams off. My KZ1300 has shims and buckets and I re set them recently. I should have done a compression test but don't feel like putting the cams back in and checking the chains. All good advice thanks. I might get the heads off today.
 

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You don't need cams to do a leak down test. In fact it's easier without them. So when the bike was dropped, was it running? Again, this is information we didn't know that is very important. We still don't know the condition of the plugs, although if the bike was running when it was dropped then that may not be a good indicator. We also still don't know how much oil you drained out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Not 100% sure but I think the bike was running when dropped over. As I said after the filter was loosened and the engine cranked over the light went out and then drove about 40 miles with no issues before it started losing power and was limped home. Also not sure of oil remaining. It was riders behind who told of it burning oil. I'm going to assume its the rings as I think it was burning oil on accel and not decel. i'll post what I find, might try to do a compression test, thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I was going to do a compression test with the cams off then realized the chains would have to be controlled or they might chew themselves up. I have one head and barrel off and the valves look ok at visual but I'll probably inspect them more. The cyl wall looks decent no scoring or rough spots. The top 2 compression rings are lose and gaps opposite each other and the bottom oil ring assy came lose after a little push so it might have been seized. I'll remove the second cyl head assy soon.
 

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Sounds to me like it just had some oil get past the rings and caused it to burn. If there was damage done while the bike was dropped, the bearing would have been the first thing to go. If the bearings weren't knocking or screaming, it probably just needed to be flushed. With the oil burning on the plugs it probably lost spark and caused poor running conditions. The locked up part doesn't make sense.
 

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Ok so stop me if i missed it. You took the cams off but didnt find any spacers on the tops of the valves. They should have been there just like on the other bike you described.
Its very possible they got dislodged and are in the case. You state the engine quit/seized Did it quit or did it seize there is a big difference.
Since you have the jugs off by the sound of it what ate the specs are they worn or damaged.
What did the oil look like. Was there metal in the oil or was it clean.
The more information you can give as you progress the more we can help you make a determination if you have a rebuildable motor or a paper weight. pictures always help
It sounds like you have a pretty good mechanical back ground and are comfortable working on bikes but you may be running way ahead and making more work for yourself.
 
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