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Discussion Starter #1
Harley twin cam engines have some incredible faults and one major one is the cam chain tensioner shoes, Here is a paragraph from the "Harley Known Issues" document,

The biggest problem is the poor design of the cam chain system. It still uses "shoes" riding on the cam chains that can still wear out, even with the new hydraulic tensioning system, for that is not a true fix. What is the problem? The shoes rub against the two chains and the shoes wear out. When they do there will be metal to metal contact and this grinding creates metal shavings that creates a catastrophic engine failure. So bad the entire engine is destroyed; cams, pistons, crankshaft, engine cases broken. It is a wickedly serious engine design defect. Be aware... it can fail at 15,000 miles. Even the new hydraulic system can fail at 50,000 miles or less
Now the 2000 engine has twin cams with chains and shoe type adjusters. Does anyone know if we have a problem like Hardleys? or did Kawasaki get it right? I hope they got it right.
 

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I have not read about any issues with VN2K cam chain tensioners. Certainly that doesn't mean there haven't been any, some where, but I don't recall seeing anything about it here.
 

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wocka, wocka, wocka
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NO. kaws use an elongated guide on the return side of the drive gear where it is not subject to excessive pressure. This is the same layout as used in OHC motors with cam chains running up over the top of the motor heads, where the cam chain tensioner is located on the return side . Also the material kaw and everybody else uses wont break down with wear and heat.

I have been inside hardley motors addressing this very issue. it is a frinken nitemare to see a $25k motorcycle with the cheapest components at critical points and engineered design a second grader wouldnt submit.

the hardley cam chain tensionsors (2) are made of a hard bakelite type plastic that will crack, splinter and shred under wear and heat. they are small approx 1/2" x 1/2" surface area is there contact patch with the chain. they are suspended on a steel barrel with a horrendous spring or the new hydraulic adjuster. Still the same these piss poor bastards are set to self destruct at any time w/o warning. its not so much that the metal barrels now come in direct contact with the high speed chain, is more that all the plastic and metal shavings ar in close proximatey to the otherwise piss poor oil pump and WILL plug it up titer than a drum.
So now your $25k 6 layer krome and 20 layer candyass painted pos is now minus a motor as it has been starved of any lubrication (not that it really had all that much going on, 5psi is standard, yeah cold the gauge will read 30, come back in 5 minutes it will hover around Zero).

so to answer your question, NO. only hardleys can get away with putting out trash and getting top dollar for it from the brain (wish they would wash) krowd.
 

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Too true Ponch.

Other bike manufacturers get crucified for dodgy products. However the good ole HD marketing and gullible owners reckon its part of the character or 'ambiance' of owning such a noble machine......... Pfffffffff yeah woteva.

No wonder i see so many of em parked up at pubs, clubs and cafes when out im riding my reliable sled, cos they're dogs.

Don't get me wrong, i love the look of em, but i like reliability over status any day.

Oh and I'm Scottish too ( ya know, short armed and long pocket type) so cost simply rules out ever owning a Hardly-Ridden.
Ando


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Discussion Starter #5
NO. kaws use an elongated guide on the return side of the drive gear where it is not subject to excessive pressure. This is the same layout as used in OHC motors with cam chains running up over the top of the motor heads, where the cam chain tensioner is located on the return side . Also the material kaw and everybody else uses wont break down with wear and heat.

I have been inside hardley motors addressing this very issue. it is a frinken nitemare to see a $25k motorcycle with the cheapest components at critical points and engineered design a second grader wouldnt submit.

the hardley cam chain tensionsors (2) are made of a hard bakelite type plastic that will crack, splinter and shred under wear and heat. they are small approx 1/2" x 1/2" surface area is there contact patch with the chain. they are suspended on a steel barrel with a horrendous spring or the new hydraulic adjuster. Still the same these piss poor bastards are set to self destruct at any time w/o warning. its not so much that the metal barrels now come in direct contact with the high speed chain, is more that all the plastic and metal shavings ar in close proximatey to the otherwise piss poor oil pump and WILL plug it up titer than a drum.
So now your $25k 6 layer krome and 20 layer candyass painted pos is now minus a motor as it has been starved of any lubrication (not that it really had all that much going on, 5psi is standard, yeah cold the gauge will read 30, come back in 5 minutes it will hover around Zero).

so to answer your question, NO. only hardleys can get away with putting out trash and getting top dollar for it from the brain (wish they would wash) krowd.
Thanks for that brilliant answer PV. I didn't think Kawa could ever design something as bad as Hardley. It was the only thing that was niggling at me when I saw the cam chains in the 2000. I can rest easy now. How Hardley Ridable gets away with it amazes me.

You know that 95% of all Hardleys ever made are still on the road, yep true, the other 5% actually made it home from the ride.

I hope you are busy getting all that info together on the 2000 motor for all of us to read PV?

Here is a link to the Hardley engine faults story for anyone interested. Crack a beer its a long one.
http://www.jamesrussellpublishing.biz/beforeyoubuyharley.html
 

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wocka, wocka, wocka
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it's amazing that hardley STILL does things the way they've always done things BECAUSE that's the way they always done it. Is the mantra you hear when asking simple questions like "why doesn't hardley just use gear driven cams? like is available from aftermarket upgrades?"
Or "why doesn't hardley use a hydraulic clutch standard on their $25k tour bike? like all their competitors?"
Or "why doesn't hardley put a decent kickstand on a 850lb $25k tour bike?"

What you will get is "hardley always has done it this way and the lemmings are more than happy to pony up big bux for substandard chit"
 

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it's amazing that hardley STILL does things the way they've always done things BECAUSE that's the way they always done it. Is the mantra you hear when asking simple questions like "why doesn't hardley just use gear driven cams? like is available from aftermarket upgrades?"
Or "why doesn't hardley use a hydraulic clutch standard on their $25k tour bike? like all their competitors?"
Or "why doesn't hardley put a decent kickstand on a 850lb $25k tour bike?"

What you will get is "hardley always has done it this way and the lemmings are more than happy to pony up big bux for substandard chit"
Yeah the Hardley folk haven't figured it out yet that "just because ya always done something that way doesn't mean it's the right way" (like driving on the right hand side of the road eh, lol)

Mind you to be fair to the Hardly folk, at least they had good sense to copy the V2K water cooled head set ups for their top dollar bikes, lol.

They be a learnin, albeit slooooooooooooooooowly.
Ando
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yeah the Hardley folk haven't figured it out yet that "just because ya always done something that way doesn't mean it's the right way" (like driving on the right hand side of the road eh, lol)

Mind you to be fair to the Hardly folk, at least they had good sense to copy the V2K water cooled head set ups for their top dollar bikes, lol.

They be a learnin, albeit slooooooooooooooooowly.
Ando
I think I read or someone told me that Hardley were having big problems with their water cooling setup, could be wrong will have to look into it.
When my cousin and his friend came to Tassie on their Hardleys, and we all went riding, or tried to anyway, I was going to write a book on all the things that broke, fell off, didn't work properly, I lost count of how many times one of them broke down with fuel issues, electrical wires breaking, mirrors fell off, rear disc rotor fell off, rear break hose blew and fluid everywhere, carby on one of them would all of a sudden just flood and fuel would pour out for a few klms then stop, starter button flew to bits, front fork seal blew out and cap at top of fork leg undid and spring popped out, one guys back was so bad he had to buy a new seat, front rotors warped so bad the whole bike shook under brakes, primary chain on one flew to bits, had to change hand grips to help with numb hands on one of them etc etc etc.
They would never comment on the vn900 I was riding cause it was a rice burner, oh sorry my cousins mate did say something, he said "well at least my bike is heavier than yours" I still don't know what to make of that.
The 900 never missed a beat and the Hardleys generally were slowing me down when they worked. At least they were not twin cam motors or we really would have had some problems.
 

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wocka, wocka, wocka
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Yeah the Hardley folk haven't figured it out yet that "just because ya always done something that way doesn't mean it's the right way" (like driving on the right hand side of the road eh, lol)
Ando
rnz, just to put things in perspective, they call it the Right side if the road for a reason. It is the Correct side of the road to be driving on. 95% of human beings are Right handed and have well established that the Right side of most activity is the proper course to take. Carrying your weapon in yor right hand and yor shield in yor left, made for proper passage of troops passing on the same path. Same goes for armed civilians.
Limeys are the ones who broke protocol and subverted the planet in all their subject countries.

Every where you go outside the British empire, humanity naturally follows course and maintains a Right side pattern, passing when walking in shops and streets and even greeting each other, tendency is to the Right (correct) which is WHY it is called the Right of Way.

Now just to be fair, I have offered to all of the British crown and her subjects that we Americans would fully embrace and employ utilize the metric system as soon as you Limeys get the hell over on the Right side of the road where you belong. It would seem to be an equitable solution. poncho
 

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it's amazing that hardley STILL does things the way they've always done things BECAUSE that's the way they always done it. Is the mantra you hear when asking simple questions like "why doesn't hardley just use gear driven cams? like is available from aftermarket upgrades?"
Or "why doesn't hardley use a hydraulic clutch standard on their $25k tour bike? like all their competitors?"
Or "why doesn't hardley put a decent kickstand on a 850lb $25k tour bike?"

What you will get is "hardley always has done it this way and the lemmings are more than happy to pony up big bux for substandard chit"
Nothing against Hardleys, had three of them in the past, 2 Pans and a Shovel, but it seems like in this neck of the woods everyone who owns one has it for sale. Just looking on the KC C....sL..t, they outnumber all other makes combined by at least 3 to 1 with the majority of used ones in the 20-30k mileage range. Jeez, 20-25K $ for 2 or 3 years use makes a person wonder if worth it's worth it. Wish I could come up with a product and generate the same brand loyalty.
 

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rnz, just to put things in perspective, they call it the Right side if the road for a reason. It is the Correct side of the road to be driving on. 95% of human beings are Right handed and have well established that the Right side of most activity is the proper course to take. Carrying your weapon in yor right hand and yor shield in yor left, made for proper passage of troops passing on the same path. Same goes for armed civilians.
Limeys are the ones who broke protocol and subverted the planet in all their subject countries.

Every where you go outside the British empire, humanity naturally follows course and maintains a Right side pattern, passing when walking in shops and streets and even greeting each other, tendency is to the Right (correct) which is WHY it is called the Right of Way.

Now just to be fair, I have offered to all of the British crown and her subjects that we Americans would fully embrace and employ utilize the metric system as soon as you Limeys get the hell over on the Right side of the road where you belong. It would seem to be an equitable solution. poncho
Hehehehe, nice one, right vs left is always good for fishin.................. Gets good bites.

i'm one of the odd ball buggers, being ambidextrous, means i can do bugger all with both hands. So left or right hand, no issues.

Take care eh Ponch. Tally ho, long live the Queen, ;)
Ando



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[Wish I could come up with a product and generate the same brand loyalty.[/QUOTE]


Yep me to. Ya got to applaud HD for their marketing prowess, without a doubt they have done a dam fine job there.
Ando



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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
[Wish I could come up with a product and generate the same brand loyalty.

Yep me to. Ya got to applaud HD for their marketing prowess, without a doubt they have done a dam fine job there.
Ando



Sent from the bottom of the Earth via a Tapatalk clone........……Motorcycle.com.
Its a bit like McDonalds hamburgers, they are not the best hamburgers in the world, but they sell the most hamburgers. I think we are all a bit silly.
 

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rnz, just to put things in perspective, they call it the Right side if the road for a reason. It is the Correct side of the road to be driving on. 95% of human beings are Right handed and have well established that the Right side of most activity is the proper course to take. Carrying your weapon in yor right hand and yor shield in yor left, made for proper passage of troops passing on the same path. Same goes for armed civilians.
Limeys are the ones who broke protocol and subverted the planet in all their subject countries.

Every where you go outside the British empire, humanity naturally follows course and maintains a Right side pattern, passing when walking in shops and streets and even greeting each other, tendency is to the Right (correct) which is WHY it is called the Right of Way.

Now just to be fair, I have offered to all of the British crown and her subjects that we Americans would fully embrace and employ utilize the metric system as soon as you Limeys get the hell over on the Right side of the road where you belong. It would seem to be an equitable solution. poncho
I guess the folks in the grocery stores forget this; cause, I'm always getting walked around on the right side by ppl coming at me, even when I leave more than enough room on the left! IT DRIVES ME MAD! :crazyeyes:
 

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Geopolitical opinions

LOL:D Ponch, you need to get into politics:eek:
 

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wocka, wocka, wocka
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Shark Week, you can learn a lot about life... and death

LOL:D Ponch, you need to get into politics:eek:
sink to the lowest form of life (if you can classify it as such) on the planet. the perfession is cobbled full of "lowyers, yes bottom feeding skum with teeth like sharks and behavior to match...
Once pondered why someone would WANT to be such a lowlife, it came to me that Lawyers are not bad people because theyr lawyers,,
is that they are Lawyers because they are inherently BAD people and become lawyers as this is a natural outlet for them to behave in a way that is natural to them.. Sharks feeding upon anything that moves.. including other sharks.

butt, Poly Tics is a body of low life blood sucking parasites who feed off the life blood of the populace. They have no other purposes under heaven than to kill the host.

Governments, in general come into being having a MINIMAL-BASIC function to provide a CORE set of services (Charter) to the public, A. Protection (police, sheriff, army) B. Roads, Rite of way to Travel and do business, C. Sanitary (garbage, clean water & sewer). That is it! in all its TOTAL reason to even exist. Anything else the Gov performs is Rites of the People taken away and doled out at Gov whims.

Governments begin as an Organization to SERVE the people who are willing to pay for BASIC CORE services.
AS these organizations grow in SIZE they need ever more resources (money) to function till they hit what is known as Critical Mass and they no longer are an Organization to Serve but become an ORGANISM to be Served. Yes they become ALIVE with their own AGENDA. the First and Most important thing any living thing must do is "STAY ALIVE". this is only insured by Feeding and Growing , thus Gov's keep adding to thier core set of services more and more functions (rites) taken away from the people so they can justify more taxes to perform these services at less than normal efficiences.. When ever the economy (taxes) shrinks as it normaly does like the the tides (is part of the rithym of life), the First thing ALL Gov's do is cut CORE services, (police, roads, sanitary) to put the Squeeze on people (pain) so to raise the Tax RATE. which will Never come down, even when the economy (tides) come back in. So the Gov grows FATTER still with more money, till the next economy Tide, where they do exactly the same thing, Cut Core -Squeeze blood out- Feed and Grow Bigger..
there you have it.... Poly Tics.

I like the way Old Duke put it, "Just shoot em all and let God sort em out".
 

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butt, Poly Tics is a body of low life blood sucking parasites who feed off the life blood of the populace. They have no other purposes under heaven than to kill the host.

Governments, in general come into being having a MINIMAL-BASIC function to provide a CORE set of services (Charter) to the public, A. Protection (police, sheriff, army) B. Roads, Rite of way to Travel and do business, C. Sanitary (garbage, clean water & sewer). That is it! in all its TOTAL reason to even exist. Anything else the Gov performs is Rites of the People taken away and doled out at Gov whims.

Governments begin as an Organization to SERVE the people who are willing to pay for BASIC CORE services.
AS these organizations grow in SIZE they need ever more resources (money) to function till they hit what is known as Critical Mass and they no longer are an Organization to Serve but become an ORGANISM to be Served. Yes they become ALIVE with their own AGENDA. the First and Most important thing any living thing must do is "STAY ALIVE". this is only insured by Feeding and Growing , thus Gov's keep adding to thier core set of services more and more functions (rites) taken away from the people so they can justify more taxes to perform these services at less than normal efficiences.. When ever the economy (taxes) shrinks as it normaly does like the the tides (is part of the rithym of life), the First thing ALL Gov's do is cut CORE services, (police, roads, sanitary) to put the Squeeze on people (pain) so to raise the Tax RATE. which will Never come down, even when the economy (tides) come back in. So the Gov grows FATTER still with more money, till the next economy Tide, where they do exactly the same thing, Cut Core -Squeeze blood out- Feed and Grow Bigger..
there you have it.... Poly Tics.

I like the way Old Duke put it, "Just shoot em all and let God sort em out".
Yeah it's feckin electioneering time down here, a right ole suck fest with all the parasites out parading their wares, makes ya cringe with all BS they continuously spout.

Heard one comment that made me blood boil about motorcyclists. Reckoned we're being subsidized by other motorists and they NEED to raise the rego costs to $1000-1200 per year!!!!!

Typical BS we get from the gummmamunt, pick on those filthy bikers everyone loves to hate to get quick easy votes and score more pingers for their pockets, where's ole Duke when ya need him.

Needless to say, i Crossed that fecker off my voting list!
Ando









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