PCV with Ignition and the sluggish performance after 1/2 way on coolant temp guage - Kawasaki Vulcan Forum : Vulcan Forums
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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PCV with Ignition and the sluggish performance after 1/2 way on coolant temp guage

Hopefully ray will chime in, but I am wondering if any headway has been made into figuring out what causes the bog down once the bike warms up. I noticed on the PCV info while installing that I can have things happen based on


Analog input (allows user to install any 0-5 volt sensor and build an adjustment table based on its input such as boost or temperature)


If we can determine if the stock map is retarding ignition, or richening the fuel or a combination of both, we should be able to build in a correction into the map based on thermostat temps....


RAY and all you other mad scientists - help!

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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 02:34 PM
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I have performed numerous dyno runs on Vulcan 1700's with the temp gauge needle in various positions. I have found that when the needle gets 1/2 way between the halfway line and the next line the ECU starts to retard the ignition timing, the higher that needle goes the more ignition retard
There is a substantial loss of power when the needle gets to the 3/4 mark, if memory serves me that loss amounts to about 5 h.p.
The acceleration is affected and the skoot runs like poopoo. I have had a fan switch on my skoot for a lonf time now, when I get into slow traffic I just turn the fan on and never see the needle past the halfway mark.

RACNRAY

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WITH OVER 42 YEARS AS A MOTORCYCLE TECHNICIAN/HI-PO SHOP OWNER I AM A PURVEYOR OF FACT NOT FICTION!
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 03:20 PM
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So about that wiring Ray ... care to share with the class? I hate to re-invent the wheel!

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACNRAY View Post
I have performed numerous dyno runs on Vulcan 1700's with the temp gauge needle in various positions. I have found that when the needle gets 1/2 way between the halfway line and the next line the ECU starts to retard the ignition timing, the higher that needle goes the more ignition retard
There is a substantial loss of power when the needle gets to the 3/4 mark, if memory serves me that loss amounts to about 5 h.p.
The acceleration is affected and the skoot runs like poopoo. I have had a fan switch on my skoot for a lonf time now, when I get into slow traffic I just turn the fan on and never see the needle past the halfway mark.

RACNRAY
Right, I understand that...but it should be consistent retardation - that could be remedied with programming the pcv to advance ignition in correlation to the temp sensor...solving the issue of needing a fan switch, and allowing the bike to operate the way it should, rather than the way kawi intended - without fooling with the thermostat, or having a switch.

my hondas always ran just as strong no matter how hot the coolant was, and my dads and bros harleys run (or so they say) just as good when cool or hot....

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So about that wiring Ray ... care to share with the class? I hate to re-invent the wheel!
im thinking we should be able to measure the timing on a bike that is hot, and figure out the wiring for the temp or temp sensor with the help of dynojet tech....now if i just had a free dyno sitting around ;-)

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 06:12 PM
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From the dyno runs I have done the amount of ignition retard is not a constant. The power loss with the temp gauge needle midway between the halfway and 3/4 mark is not as great as with the needle at the 3/4 mark.

If I forget to turn my fan on and the needle gets a bit past halfway I can feel the slight hesitation, but it is not as bad as with the needle at 3/4, it is very noticeable.

There is noway on these skoots to check ignition timing, there are no access ports to view timing marks while the engine is running.

Different temp thermostats will not work to alter coolnat temp once the stat is full open, as the coolant temp will still reach those high temps in traffic.

The 1700's are the first skoots that my ole memory can, uh, remember, that has an ignition retard programmed into the ecu based on engine temp.

RACNRAY

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WITH OVER 42 YEARS AS A MOTORCYCLE TECHNICIAN/HI-PO SHOP OWNER I AM A PURVEYOR OF FACT NOT FICTION!
"WE LIVE OUR LIVES IN CHAINS NEVER KNOWING WE HAD THE KEY"
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-11-2013, 08:37 PM
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So about that wiring Ray ... care to share with the class?

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-12-2013, 02:11 AM
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Ray, why would Ma Kaw retard the ignition in correlation to coolant/engine temp? I have also noticed my 9 hates the heat, although it never appears to run hot....
Is it for engine life/longevity?

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-12-2013, 03:03 AM
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Could be to help prevent preignition since its more likely with higher temp and more timing?


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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-12-2013, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty360 View Post
So about that wiring Ray ... care to share with the class?
Next time I have my seat off I will inspect the wiring and report back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silenthill View Post
Ray, why would Ma Kaw retard the ignition in correlation to coolant/engine temp? I have also noticed my 9 hates the heat, although it never appears to run hot....
Is it for engine life/longevity?
See below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick View Post
Could be to help prevent preignition since its more likely with higher temp and more timing?


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YES...the big mistake I feel Kawi made with the 1700 is using only one spark plug per cylinder on an engine with a 4" bore. The old 1500/1600's and most big bore v-twins now a days use 2 plugs per cyclinder. This allows for more complete combustion and also minimizes pinging.

On the 1700's I feel Kawi feared, or maybe experienced in pre-production testing, pinging when the engine got hot. Easy thing is to program the ECU to stsrt retarding the ignition timing as coolant temps rise.

RACNRAY

"TRUE HAPPINESS IS IN THE HEART,NOT IN THE OUTSIDE FIXES!!"
WITH OVER 42 YEARS AS A MOTORCYCLE TECHNICIAN/HI-PO SHOP OWNER I AM A PURVEYOR OF FACT NOT FICTION!
"WE LIVE OUR LIVES IN CHAINS NEVER KNOWING WE HAD THE KEY"
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-13-2013, 11:49 AM
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Ill keep my eyes peeled for the wiring as well. I wouldn't mind being able to control the fan. Until I leave it on and kill the battery one of these days

Chris
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