2011 an up Stalling issues? - Kawasaki Vulcan Forum : Vulcan Forums
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-03-2013, 10:33 PM Thread Starter
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2011 an up Stalling issues?

I saw and read the sticky for the stalling for the 09-10's but came up empty handed when searching for the 2011's.

I know it has to be the ECU which is getting worse and caused me to stall out 4x's this evening. The first stall I had was 06/2012 and this occurred 20 mins after 2nd oil change so I figured it was because it did not have the 5.3 quarts in it, so stalled out on the highway and then it restarted. Took next U-turn and headed back home and added some oil and stalling stopped. That was until 05/28/13.

I stalled 2xs that evening. When I got home, checked oil level and it showed a little low but not by much. So topped off with necessary amount. didn't ride again until this evening when it stalled twice on the highway and twice at traffic lights after light turned green and I was making a left. Very embarrassing too.

So just trying to find out if anyone who has a 2011 on up is having stalling issues?

Also after 3rd stall I rode back home and did oil change even though I wasn't due for another 200 plus miles. Started using for first time Mobile one V-Twin full syn 20w50. Engine performs much nicer. Got rid fo the valve tick noise and runs cooler now. Using chrome K&N filter with nut head on filter for easy on/off/

2011 VN1700 Classic.
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Last edited by Kaz71; 06-03-2013 at 10:37 PM.
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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-04-2013, 06:12 AM
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My 2011 Vaquero has never stalled in over 19,000 miles. Have you taken it to your dealer, since it's under warranty? That's where I would start. I've never heard of a engine stalling due to low oil, unless it has a "low oil shutdown" sensor like my Honda 13hp pressure washer engine has. Being a sporadic issue will unfortunately make it hard to diagnose.

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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-04-2013, 08:42 AM
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Slightly low oil level will NOT cause stalling, period.

Now, you depict 2 different scenarios with the same "stalling" result.

FIRST...stalling as commonly used and understood is when a vehicle is at a complete stop or just taking off from that stop and the engine quits, that is a "stall".

SECOND...you say the bike "stalled" on the hiway. Did the engine die and lose power while you were riding at speed? Did you pull in the clutch and restart or did you have to pull over to restart? If so this is an indication of something pretty serious. An engine losing power(stalling) while idling at a stop is one thing, losing power at speed is a danger to you and others.

Please be more specific, but anyways this may have to go to the dealer for them to fix under warrantee. Hopefully we can help you better describe the problem more accurately so if you go to the dealer you can give them better and more complete info. You are welcome to call my shop so I can help further 954-455-9665.

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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-04-2013, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tstorey823 View Post
My 2011 Vaquero has never stalled in over 19,000 miles. Have you taken it to your dealer, since it's under warranty? That's where I would start. I've never heard of a engine stalling due to low oil, unless it has a "low oil shutdown" sensor like my Honda 13hp pressure washer engine has. Being a sporadic issue will unfortunately make it hard to diagnose.
My Yamaha Kodiak "ATV" has low oil shut down and that has happened to me before with it. Turns out drive shaft seal was leaking, thus lowered the oil level. All the Japanese engines, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda to name a few have low oil shut down. The Honda will sound a beeping sound in my 13 hp small engine.

With first stall, I was shifting into 4th I believe. The other 2 (before last nigh oil change) I was at a light and made left turns and was shifting into second when the stall occurred. I posted in an existing topic I found a few minutes ago explaining my experiences and the condition of oil along with oil levels.

No stalls today (36 mile ride this morning) but did contact a certified dealer and told them about it. Basically I would have to leave my VN1700 with them and they would run a serious of tests to determine if it would be pin pointed to a faulty ECU setting.

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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-04-2013, 01:11 PM
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With first stall, I was shifting into 4th I believe.

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Describe "in detail" what the bike did and what you did from the first sign of stall until you were back on your way. Leave nothing out.
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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-04-2013, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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Before oil change and cleaning air filter:

First stall "2013" was on 5/28. I was riding down 2 lane highway in 5th gear or maybe it was 4th and about to shift into 5th or 6th (depending on what gear I was in at time). Also stalled when I started going from a light as I held clutch in to shift into 3rd.

6/3/13.. I was started from a traffic light to an under pass which leads to an exit or onto the highway (I was headed to highway). I was in 2nd under the bridge and held clutch in to shift into 3rd, it lost power and went into stall. All stall times I pull off to shoulder, turn ignition off, take key off key chain, insert it, turn key, push start button. Starts right back up.

Then there was 2 other stalls minutes later when I got off highway exit an waited for light to turn. As I held clutch in and shifted into 2nd after being in first, it stalled out. Went to bank to deposit cash and turned around and head home. No stall of any kind on way home. Decided to check oil after it cooled down some (oil stick was down right shot as fire). Finally got rag to hold over oil stick, unscrewed and it had too much oil and oil looked like muddy water almost. I was 200 miles away from oil change (2800) miles on that oil change using Valvoline 10W40 V twin syn oil.

Replaced oil and filter, used for first time Mobile 1 syn V twin oil 20W50. After oil change took off for ride and ride was noticeably better, much improved quieter running engine, shifting felt better as well. Rode back to that very Twp that I had stalled out 3 times already. Came to a traffic light and stopped. Waited for light to turn green and started off in 1rst, then as I shifted into 2nd while holding clutch in, it went into stall. All stalls had no indications on LCD screen.

Took it out this late morning for 36 mile ride, no stall, ran perfectly. However I did not travel back into that Twp where it was stalling which is lower elevation. I'm about 920 ft in elevation, down there is 120 I think? I don't think elevation has anything to do with it but didn't want to rule it out yet. I'm actually going to take a ride now back down same route I took last night and see if I stall again.

Will report my findings when I return.

Also after 36 mile morning ride today which had no stalls. When I got home I took apart air filter covers and discovered bird seed, and pieces of weather block tiny crumbs. Mouse must of tried getting into there over the winter. Last time I cleaned out filter was Feb, but really haven't started riding till end of April due to cold air here. Also cleaned out throttle bottle which wasn't that bad, but did manage to clean up black deposits.

2011 VN1700 Classic.
Cobra Speedsters
Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tune
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Mustang Sport Touring Seat - Studded
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Kuryakyn ISO Deluxe Brake Pedal Pad
Kuryakyn Flamed Floorboard Cover
Kuryakyn Adjustable Cruise Peg
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6,000K Xenon HID Kit
Carroll Leather Saddlebags
Wolo Bad Boy horn

Last edited by Kaz71; 06-04-2013 at 03:02 PM.
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-04-2013, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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Here is update of ride I just took. Took same route and entrance/exits on highway "stayed in right lane for safety incase of stall". Ran perfectly! No stalls, and even waited at a traffic light for over 4 mins cause it didn't detect my weight until car pulled behind me. But I wanted to sit at a light for a period of time anyways, to try to mimic yesterdays ride.

My opinion: I think there is a low oil shut off and possible dirty oil shut off. It's not unheard of. My trucks DIC will tell me to change oil when it's dirty. Hell my ATV which is carbureted and also has LCD screen with diagnostics, it will shut the engine down while moving if oil is low. It is fail safes that the Japanese use in small engines and big bore engines. I own 4 Kawasaki engines. The 1700 cc 250 cc, 25 HP small engine, 15 HP small engine plus the Honda 13 HP small engine and a Yamaha 450 cc engine and a Yamaha 10 HP small engine all which have low oil shut off built into them or an alarm (Honda). None of my Briggs small engines have shut off's for low oil that I know of, nor heard of having.

My thoughts? I think Kawasaki knew about the safety shut off, but over looked the "what if scenario" if engine turns off when operator is riding on the roads or highways. Yes I will 100% agree, that is a HUGE safety hazard. Also now that I thought of it, my buddies V twin 750 cc Brute Force ATV stalled out on him while riding at 45 mph off road cause of low oil back in 2011.

I think Kawasaki acknowledged it but came back with a fabricated reason (clutch engagement with ECU) But you don't need an ECU to have a low oil shut off as far as I know cause my 06 Kodiak 450 is carbureted. "Correct me if I am wrong". I really believe Kawasaki blamed the ECU to cover their ass.

Here I now am running brand new oil since yesterday, cleaned out air filter with air line really well, and cleaned throttle bodies. Maybe throttle bodies with enough carbon on edges can cause air intakes to not close all the way and get stuck and cause engine to stall? I know when I cleaned up the TB's I got a lot of black carbon deposits up.

I'm not so much upset about not getting 3,000 miles between changes and having to fork out $80 for oil and filter. After all, Kawasaki has oil cover everything unlike say Harley Davidson where there is engine oil separate from trans. I'll take the $80 price and simplicity of Kawasaki's engines over HD's for maintenance.

Also again, when I got home and using this Mobile one syn V twin oil, my fan didn't have to come on from excessive heat and primary is not to hot and I can touch it without getting a burn, same with mufflers.

Will continue to monitor and report if I have any stalls in future. I think the sensor for low oil and possible dirty oil takes X amount of mileage to reset. Unless there is a Kawasaki tech who tore down a 1700 and knows every part, feel free to chime in.

2011 VN1700 Classic.
Cobra Speedsters
Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tune
K&N Air Filter
Mustang Sport Touring Seat - Studded
Slipstreamer Stealth Windshield
Kawasaki Engine Cover Trim
Sissy Bar Studded Backrest & Luggage Rack
Kuryakyn ISO Deluxe Brake Pedal Pad
Kuryakyn Flamed Floorboard Cover
Kuryakyn Adjustable Cruise Peg
Kuryakyn ISO Large Male Mount Pegs
6,000K Xenon HID Kit
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Wolo Bad Boy horn

Last edited by Kaz71; 06-04-2013 at 04:27 PM.
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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-04-2013, 06:05 PM
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The 1700's DO NOT have any kind of low oil or dirty oil shut-off system. Period. The engine will not shut off as a result of the ECU detecting either of those conditions. It does not have the programming to perform what you claim. I have gone as long as 7900 miles on Amsoil, that stuff was blacker than black but the skoot never shut down.

Also Kawi recommends 7500 mile oil change intervals. A good quality oil like Mobil 1 or Amsoil can go the distance, Kawi's own synthetic oil has also proven to be a good performer. If you are changing the oil at 3000 miles you are changing it too soon, unless you are using a lesser quality oil.

Fuel injected engines by design are "self adjusting", utilizing various sensors that enable the ECU to compensate for climate and altitude changes.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe I read that along with the fresh oil change and the cleaning of the air filter you also cleaned out the throttle bores and plates. Bingo...I found years ago the deposits that form around the throttle bores and plates will cause problems. The crankcase ventilation system on most skoots contribute to that accumuation that you cleaned out.
These deposits not so much prevent the throttle plates from closing as much as they restrict the air flow past the throttle plates, causing problems such as poor idle quality and ...stalling. I believe that is what "fixed" your skoot.

Glad to hear you are no longer having the stalling problem, but to all of us we need to clean our throttle body bores on a regular basis.

RACNRAY

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WITH OVER 42 YEARS AS A MOTORCYCLE TECHNICIAN/HI-PO SHOP OWNER I AM A PURVEYOR OF FACT NOT FICTION!
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-04-2013, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RACNRAY View Post
The 1700's DO NOT have any kind of low oil or dirty oil shut-off system. Period. The engine will not shut off as a result of the ECU detecting either of those conditions. It does not have the programming to perform what you claim. I have gone as long as 7900 miles on Amsoil, that stuff was blacker than black but the skoot never shut down.

Also Kawi recommends 7500 mile oil change intervals. A good quality oil like Mobil 1 or Amsoil can go the distance, Kawi's own synthetic oil has also proven to be a good performer. If you are changing the oil at 3000 miles you are changing it too soon, unless you are using a lesser quality oil.

Fuel injected engines by design are "self adjusting", utilizing various sensors that enable the ECU to compensate for climate and altitude changes.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe I read that along with the fresh oil change and the cleaning of the air filter you also cleaned out the throttle bores and plates. Bingo...I found years ago the deposits that form around the throttle bores and plates will cause problems. The crankcase ventilation system on most skoots contribute to that accumuation that you cleaned out.
These deposits not so much prevent the throttle plates from closing as much as they restrict the air flow past the throttle plates, causing problems such as poor idle quality and ...stalling. I believe that is what "fixed" your skoot.

Glad to hear you are no longer having the stalling problem, but to all of us we need to clean our throttle body bores on a regular basis.

RACNRAY
But, regarding the throttle bodies. I didn't clean them until after my late morning 36 mile ride (which had zero stall issues). It was only 1 stall issue last night after the oil and oil filter change. But that is correct about the throttle bodies, and the problems affiliated with dirty carbon deposits on them.

Same issue with very first stall when bike was 2-3 months old. I did the 2nd oil change June 2012 but only used 5 quarts. I over looked the fact of it requiring 5.3 quarts and I started to stall out on the highway soon after the oil change. Turned around at over pass and went back home and I believe I stalled a 2nd time cause I remember stalling going west bound in this highway last year. So after I arrived home, I added the .3 of oil and then left for another ride. Did not experience any stalls any longer, that is until 5/28/2013.

I know for certain that small jap engines including motorcycle engines have this fail safe on low oil. As mentioned already, my 06 Kodiak 450 stalled out due to low oil, and one of my atv riding buddies had his 750 V twin Brute Force "Kawasaki" which is EFI stall out due to low oil. Everytime oil was added or changed, the stalling stopped. It doesn't have to be an EFI engine with an ECU to have this fail safe, my ATV is carbureted but does have a LCD screen with diagnose troubles if they shall arise.

Maybe oil viscosity break down causes it? After all my engine got so hot using the recommend 10W40 oil you could fry bacon and cook eggs off of it. I was using Valvoline V twin oil which was not a full SYN like Mobile one, but did have the recommended oil code which Kawasaki recommends (MATF?) or some code like that.

But that is good to know about the throttle bodies if dirty will cause stalling issues. I had a feeling they would, but wasn't 100% sure. After all, I never have to clean the throttle bodies on any of my trucks or cars.

2011 VN1700 Classic.
Cobra Speedsters
Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tune
K&N Air Filter
Mustang Sport Touring Seat - Studded
Slipstreamer Stealth Windshield
Kawasaki Engine Cover Trim
Sissy Bar Studded Backrest & Luggage Rack
Kuryakyn ISO Deluxe Brake Pedal Pad
Kuryakyn Flamed Floorboard Cover
Kuryakyn Adjustable Cruise Peg
Kuryakyn ISO Large Male Mount Pegs
6,000K Xenon HID Kit
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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 06-04-2013, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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I have been wanting to try that Amsoil, but there are no shops I know of near me, nor have I ever seen them in say PA shops I stopped at either. Heard good and bad about it, but also know mechanics who swear by it.

I'm not the type of person to allow oil to be dark, to me that means it is time to change it. I know oil today is better then that of the 70's, 80's and 90's, more advanced additives, ect ect. I do follow recommended manufactures oil change stated in owners manual, and my 2011 VN1700 says 3,000 miles witht he 10W40 (which I now no longer will be using).

Funny. Got off the phone with my Brother just a little while ago, and he said his owners manual on his VN1600 which is a 2004 states a 20W40 oil. From day one, I always thought 10W40 was not a correct weight oil for my VN1700.

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Cobra Speedsters
Cobra Fi2000 PowrPro Tune
K&N Air Filter
Mustang Sport Touring Seat - Studded
Slipstreamer Stealth Windshield
Kawasaki Engine Cover Trim
Sissy Bar Studded Backrest & Luggage Rack
Kuryakyn ISO Deluxe Brake Pedal Pad
Kuryakyn Flamed Floorboard Cover
Kuryakyn Adjustable Cruise Peg
Kuryakyn ISO Large Male Mount Pegs
6,000K Xenon HID Kit
Carroll Leather Saddlebags
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