V900C FI light does not come on. / no start - Kawasaki Vulcan Forum : Vulcan Forums
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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-13-2019, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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V900C FI light does not come on. / no start

V900C
Initial symptom:
When I turn the key on.
FI light does not come on.
Fuel Pump does not prime.
No Start.

Simple Test 1
Voltage from Battery Negative to BLK/YEL wire on fuel pump harness (On the pump side of the harness connector) is 0 volts. (It should be 12v for 3 seconds to prime)

Simple Test 2
I put it in diagnostic mode (Dealer Mode 2) and had 2 codes
12 (Inlet Air Pressure Sensor)
62 (Subthrottle Valve actuator)
I have not followed the steps in the service manual for those yet.

I am open to ideas.

PERFORMANCE:
ECU reprogrammed by Ivan
Cobra Speedster Pipes
Barons BAK intake
Progressive springs in the forks.
COMFORT:
Kuryakn ISO Grips
Mustang Studded Wide Touring Seat with Driver Backrest
OEM Passenger Backrest.
MISC:
Added Grease fittings to Stem, Tie Rod, and Swingarm.
Cobra Crash Bar
Red LED lights by PO
170/80 Commander II in the rear
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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 05:25 AM
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Crank, no run? There were no codes in Dealer Mode 1? How long ago was the ECU reprogrammed? Did you check the battery voltage? Battery connections? If that's good, you need to check the fuel pump relay. Check the ECU Power Relay. Check the connections at the ECU. By that, I mean are the connectors at the ECU fully connected. If they are, remove and install the connectors a couple of times, in case there is some light corrosion on the terminals. Perform ECU Power Supply Inspection. The problem will be found, just takes time. Good Luck.

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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-14-2019, 01:09 PM
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Suggest having the battery load tested. Many auto parts stores will do that for no cost. If the battery fails the capacity load test and has low voltage that can result in some codes being thrown. From your Simple Test 1 results the battery or its connections are suspect. Best is to start diagnostics with testing the battery, rather than engaging in other testing which can give misleading results.

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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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I had a work thing the last few days that kept me busy.
Thanks for the replies.

@Ricksza : Your answers.
1. Crank, no run? : That it correct. It turns over fine but does not start.
2. There were no codes in Dealer Mode 1? : That is correct. Dealer Mode 1 showed no codes.
3. How long ago was the ECU reprogrammed? : June 2017
4. Did you check the battery voltage? Yes. 12.8 with key off. (I have kept it topped off with the tender to keep it ready for this troubleshooting)
5. Battery connections? : Shiny and tight.
6. If that's good, you need to check the fuel pump relay. : Still need to do this.
7. Check the ECU Power Relay. : Still need to do this.
8. Check the connections at the ECU. By that, I mean are the connectors at the ECU fully connected. If they are, remove and install the connectors a couple of times, in case there is some light corrosion on the terminals. : I did that. The plugs are clean and seem to seal properly to the ECU.
9. Perform ECU Power Supply Inspection. : What exactly to you mean? I cannot find this in the manual

@Hot Cruiser
1. I have not had the battery load tested yet. The voltage drop while cranking the engine over is minimal so I am not immediately concerned with it. Point taken though. It is on my radar.

PERFORMANCE:
ECU reprogrammed by Ivan
Cobra Speedster Pipes
Barons BAK intake
Progressive springs in the forks.
COMFORT:
Kuryakn ISO Grips
Mustang Studded Wide Touring Seat with Driver Backrest
OEM Passenger Backrest.
MISC:
Added Grease fittings to Stem, Tie Rod, and Swingarm.
Cobra Crash Bar
Red LED lights by PO
170/80 Commander II in the rear
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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 08:15 PM
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The kill switch is in the run position?

In the Fuel System (DFI) just past ECU Installation
ECU Power Supply Inspection
Visually inspect the terminals of the ECU connector.
If the connector is clogged with mud or dust, blow it off with compressed air.
Replace the main harness if the terminals [A] of the main harness connectors are cracked, bent, or otherwise damaged.
Replace the ECU if the terminals of the ECU connector are cracked, bent, or otherwise damaged.
With the ECU connector joined, check the following ground leads for continuity with the ignition switch ON or OFF, using a digital voltmeter.
ECU Grounding Inspection
Meter Connections:
(Without Oxygen Sensor Equipped Models [A])
26, 42, 43 (BK/Y) Terminal ←→ Battery () Terminal
22 (BR/BK) Terminal ←→ Battery () Terminal
Engine Ground ←→ Battery () Terminal
(Oxygen Sensor Equipped Models [B])
34, 50, 51 (BK/Y) Terminal ←→ Battery () Terminal
28 (BR/BK) Terminal ←→ Battery () Terminal
Engine Ground ←→ Battery () Terminal
Readings: 0 Ω (regardless of the ignition switch ON or OFF)
If no continuity, check the connector, the engine ground lead, or main harness, and repair or replace them if necessary.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting
"WHAT A RIDE!"
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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 08:23 PM Thread Starter
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I started chasing the 2 codes tonight
Code 12:
Inlet Air pressure sensor.
I performed the tests:
Input Voltage to the sensor. (Page 3-55)
Pins 8 and 22 of the ECU
Result 4.95 Volts (Within Range)

Output voltage of the sensor. (Page 3-56)
Pins 7 and 22 of the ECU
3.83 Volts (Within Range)

I was not able to put a vacuum to it tonight. I have a MitYVac hand vacuum unit. I can try that check another night this week.
I do not know for sure but I suspect this code is just from installing the barons big air kit on it, and not the root cause of my problem.

On to next Post.
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PERFORMANCE:
ECU reprogrammed by Ivan
Cobra Speedster Pipes
Barons BAK intake
Progressive springs in the forks.
COMFORT:
Kuryakn ISO Grips
Mustang Studded Wide Touring Seat with Driver Backrest
OEM Passenger Backrest.
MISC:
Added Grease fittings to Stem, Tie Rod, and Swingarm.
Cobra Crash Bar
Red LED lights by PO
170/80 Commander II in the rear
westcoastkevin is offline  
post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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@Ricksza
The Kill switch is in the run position.
The side stand is UP as I have it off the ground on the jack at the moment.
It is in Neutral, with the light illuminated.

Thanks for that test protocol. I will work through it, hopefully tomorrow night.

PERFORMANCE:
ECU reprogrammed by Ivan
Cobra Speedster Pipes
Barons BAK intake
Progressive springs in the forks.
COMFORT:
Kuryakn ISO Grips
Mustang Studded Wide Touring Seat with Driver Backrest
OEM Passenger Backrest.
MISC:
Added Grease fittings to Stem, Tie Rod, and Swingarm.
Cobra Crash Bar
Red LED lights by PO
170/80 Commander II in the rear
westcoastkevin is offline  
post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 08:58 PM
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Do you still need help with this?
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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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@sfair
I appreciate the check in.
I might need help.

Tonight I tried to chase down the Code 62. (Subthrottle Valve Actuator)

I performed the test on P 3-85.
The subthrottle Valve actuator resistance was 6.9 Ohms between Pin 1-2
The subthrottle Valve actuator resistance was 6.8 Ohms between Pin 3-4

I went to the test on Page 3-86.
Measure the peak voltage upon switching the key to the ON position..

I am using a Fluke 87V (I have 2 analog meters on hand too.)
I had to learn the procedure to put the meter in the correct mode to get DC Peak voltage. That took a few moments.

With the connector connected.
I backprobed on the main harness side and I get.
Pins 1 and 2 get 13.91v
Pins 3 and 4 get 13.63v

That is out of range. (8.9-10.9v)

I wish I had a scope to see what was happening there.

I moved on to the check on Page 3-87.
Check the wiring to the ECU from the Subthrottle Valve actuator harness plug.
I unplugged the plugs from the ecu and probed the female pin holes on the ecu connector plugs.
Result: I had good continuity and connection from the harness plug end of those 4 wires to the pin locations in the ecu plugs.

The manual suggests at this point to replace the ECU based on that voltage reading being out of range.

I do have another ECU. When I decided to get one programmed, I picked up a spare one on Ebay and sent that out to be programmed. I still have the original one that came with the bike. I am reluctant to install it yet until I do some more checks.

I am open to ideas for a next step. Admittedly, I do not yet understand the wiring enough to see a connection to the fuel pump not being energized from these 2 codes. I am just following the steps to see what might be revealed to me.
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PERFORMANCE:
ECU reprogrammed by Ivan
Cobra Speedster Pipes
Barons BAK intake
Progressive springs in the forks.
COMFORT:
Kuryakn ISO Grips
Mustang Studded Wide Touring Seat with Driver Backrest
OEM Passenger Backrest.
MISC:
Added Grease fittings to Stem, Tie Rod, and Swingarm.
Cobra Crash Bar
Red LED lights by PO
170/80 Commander II in the rear

Last edited by westcoastkevin; 04-17-2019 at 09:58 PM.
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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 01:41 AM
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Westcoastkevin, I'm not sure if your measurements would agree with Kawasaki's measurements. They are specific to the peak voltage adapter they used, and yours is in the meter. It all depends on the size of the capacitor and the bleed down resistor within the specified adapter, as to how much the measurements would agree with each other, which seems unknown at this point. I tried to find a schematic for the adapter but couldn't find one, and I have no idea of these values inside the Fluke 87. You don't know the pulse width of the peak voltage (a scope would be helpful here), there's just a fair number of variables involved, it seems to me.

With that said, it's nice that you have the original ECU, but I understand your reluctance to put it in without more tests. At least the peak voltage you are reading is coming FROM the ECU. You could try a quick test, put the spare ECU in, then turn the key on and see if the fuel pump primes and the "FI" light comes on, then quickly turn it off again. Could be a bit risky though, if there is some other electrical issue going on, which I know you're concerned about. With the engine not running, I'm not sure where any over voltage could be generated (if a failed regulator caused the ECU to fail for example).
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