Ignition advance??? - Kawasaki Vulcan Forum : Vulcan Forums
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
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Ignition advance???

Anyone ever elongate the mounting holes (to advance the ignition) on the crank trigger? To advance the ignition a couple of degrees wouldn't be too difficult. I'd want to use a dab of paint or something (engraver?) to make a reference mark, and I'm sure somehow it could be figured out how much the ignition is advanced.

See part number 59026

Gotta love parts manuals!

Where I got the idea from... this applies to Jeeps (the trusty inline six)

2007 Ninja 650R traded in and missed
2009 Vulcan 900 Classic current Kawi
900cc=55 cubic inches

Is there a Gadget page for us 900 owners???


Vulcan 900 "oily air filter" fix

Get 3-4 feet of tranny line from parts store that's the same ID as the stock vent line. Attach to jug, route hose up to bottom of fuel tank around wires and back down to airbox, cut off excess (leave a little slack so wires are NOT under tension) and attach to airbox. Reinstall everything.

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
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nobody has ever tried this... or thought of it?

2007 Ninja 650R traded in and missed
2009 Vulcan 900 Classic current Kawi
900cc=55 cubic inches

Is there a Gadget page for us 900 owners???


Vulcan 900 "oily air filter" fix

Get 3-4 feet of tranny line from parts store that's the same ID as the stock vent line. Attach to jug, route hose up to bottom of fuel tank around wires and back down to airbox, cut off excess (leave a little slack so wires are NOT under tension) and attach to airbox. Reinstall everything.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 10:16 PM
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Just curious, what would you gain by advancing the ignition? Isn't a digital advance ignition, meaning that it will automatically advance/retard to provide optimum power? That said, if you did move the ignition sensor forward, wouldn't the digital advance just back it back down based on the other sensors?

"8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 08:59 AM
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It might, depending on what feedback there is. Don't know the details on a Vulcan.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 09:04 AM
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I still wanna know what the advantage of advancing a digital advance ignition is. ??? I'm not an expert so I'm genuinely curious.

"8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Romans 5:8 (NIV)

2014 Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Vaquero ABS SE
iPod Connector Kit, Kuryakyn Highway Pegs, Mustang Touring Seat, Marvella's Hitch, Kuryakyn Trailer Wiring Kit, Haul-Master Tag-a-Long Cargo Trailer

2011 Honda Shadow Aero 750 (Wife's)

Memphis shades quick-release windshield, OEM Solo Seat, Mustang Fender Bib, Chrome Solo Luggage Rack

Past: 2006 Vulcan 900 Classic LT
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 09:20 AM
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The advantage/disadvantage would be same as with any ignition, assuming something in the system didn't just cut it back.

I can only speak to my vn2k, but the only thing i see that seems to be direct feedback from the engine in this regard is coolant/water temp. So, if the timing advance were to cause the engine to run hotter than expected, maybe timing would be dialed back. This is speculation on my behalf because I don' t know the control logic.

Last edited by whoaru99; 03-24-2012 at 09:42 AM.
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevelleSSLS6 View Post
Anyone ever elongate the mounting holes (to advance the ignition) on the crank trigger? To advance the ignition a couple of degrees wouldn't be too difficult. I'd want to use a dab of paint or something (engraver?) to make a reference mark, and I'm sure somehow it could be figured out how much the ignition is advanced.

See part number 59026

Gotta love parts manuals!

Where I got the idea from... this applies to Jeeps (the trusty inline six)
This is a mod I have been doing for years, and was a very worthwhile mod on the 1998-1999 ZX-9's. Most skoots will pick up torque and H.P. and improved throttle response.

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 09:48 AM
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Yes, at the risk of detonation, ie, more pinging and or knocking, may need to use higher octane fuel.

Last edited by whoaru99; 03-24-2012 at 10:10 AM.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-24-2012, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romans5.8 View Post
Just curious, what would you gain by advancing the ignition? Isn't a digital advance ignition, meaning that it will automatically advance/retard to provide optimum power? That said, if you did move the ignition sensor forward, wouldn't the digital advance just back it back down based on the other sensors?
All modern ignitions have an "advance curve". That advance curve has a "static" setting and a "full advance" setting. The static setting is the ignition timing setting at idle speed. Engines will not produce good power if the ignition timing remained at this static setting thruought the rpm range. As engine revs increase, there is a need to "light" the air/fuel mixture earlier in the compression stroke to allow an appropriate amount of time for the combustion process to occur and to develope good cylinder pressure on the power stroke.

In order for this to happen the ignition timing must be advanced in relation to engine rpm. This was originally solved by utilizing a mechanical spring loaded advance mechanism. The combination of advance weight and spring strength controlled how quickly the ignition was advanced vs engine rpm. Vacuum assisted advance was later added and used to improve fuel economy over what the mechanical system would provide.

We next get into the "full advance" setting. This represents the maximum amount of ignition advance allowed. Combine the static and full advance in relation to engine rpm and we have an "advance curve", which can be plotted on a graph.

Modern engines go even further in controlling ignition timing. The old mechanical advance systems were fazed out due to emmisions laws, so digitally advanced systems were put in use. These systems alter the timing based on engine rpm, later versions also used info from throttle position sensors and intake manifold vacuum for even more precise timing. Many newer vehicles also use "knock sensors" to detect pinging/pre-ignition and if any of these are detected will retard the timing to minimize/eliminate this occurance.

Now if the position of the ignition pick-up is altered, lets say timing is advanced 2 degrees, then the entire advance curve will be advanced 2degrees. Digital ignitions like on our skoots rely on the signal from the pick-up coil to detirmine the entire ignition timing curve. If the timing curve starts with the static timing at 10 degrees BTDC and full advance is 40 degrees BTDC, now add 2 degrees advance. We then have static at 12 dg BTDC and 42 dg BTDC full advance. Digital ignitions don't retard timing unless it is in the ignition map or there are the previously mentioned knock sensors.

HOPE THIS HELPS

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-07-2012, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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RACNRAY--

Any ideas how to figure out how many degrees I'd be advancing the ignition? Say, if I move the pickup 1/8" advanced (opposite the direction the crank turns), how many degrees is that? Some guys say about 6 is the most to go to be safe, but I'm sure it depends on combustion chamber design, grade and quality of fuel, and even spark plug heat range (cooler plugs help prevent detonation)?

2007 Ninja 650R traded in and missed
2009 Vulcan 900 Classic current Kawi
900cc=55 cubic inches

Is there a Gadget page for us 900 owners???


Vulcan 900 "oily air filter" fix

Get 3-4 feet of tranny line from parts store that's the same ID as the stock vent line. Attach to jug, route hose up to bottom of fuel tank around wires and back down to airbox, cut off excess (leave a little slack so wires are NOT under tension) and attach to airbox. Reinstall everything.
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