New battery, still no spark. Starts on battery charger - Kawasaki Vulcan Forum : Vulcan Forums
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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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New battery, still no spark. Starts on battery charger

I got a project Nomad a while back, got it going and then ordered up some parts.
https://www.vulcanforums.com/forums/...-no-spark.html

I ordered a new battery, figuring with solid voltage the bike should start up. I added the electrolyte and trickle charged the battery as per the manufacturers specification, installed it and the bike cranks over just fine but still doesn't start. Once I put the battery charger on, it fires right up. It will start off the battery for about five seconds after I shut it off, but any longer than that and it just cranks and cranks with no fire. The fuel pump is cycling fine.

Anyone??

2006 Nomad 1600 - project
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 02:21 PM
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Check battery voltage -
1 - before starting
2 - while cranking

or have the battery load tested.
Sounds like its no good or you haven't fully charged it yet.


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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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I will run the numbers, but I'm no stranger to working on bikes and I know what a weak battery sounds like. I bought a Yuasa battery which isn't the top of the line but a quality battery nonetheless.

I am guessing I have resistance somewhere, so I will be checking grounds. I also considered that the resistor on the ignition switch may be failing?

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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vulcandoc View Post
Check battery voltage -
1 - before starting
2 - while cranking

or have the battery load tested.
Sounds like its no good or you haven't fully charged it yet.
12.7 VDC without the key on
12.5 VDC with the key on
11.6 VDC while cranking

I have found that once the bike has started on the battery charger, I can turn the charger off and as long as I don't turn the key off it will start multiple times. As soon as I cycle the key one time, it won't start on the battery again.

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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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I thought perhaps the resistor in the ignition switch was causing issues, Kawasaki has a 100 ohm resistor that reduces the signal to the ECU down to about 6VDC so that you can't just twist wires together to steal the bike. Sadly for me, but good for the bike...the resistor tests good and I have 6.15 VDC at the ECU with a solid battery.

Now, that being said it doesn't start off the battery. When I hook up the booster the signal at the ECU goes up to about 8VDC and it then starts. Aha, you say! Maybe the ECU is needing more voltage for some reason. Perhaps, but when I shut the booster off and kill the engine withe the kill switch (not the key) it will start numerous times with only 6 VDC. Even less if I let the bike sit for 5-10 minutes. Once I cycle the key off and on again, no start until the booster is once again applied.

It's a head scratcher.....

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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 10:00 AM
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You can charge a battery to 12 volts or even more and still not have enough amps to get the engine running. Yeah the engine is cranking over, but does the battery have enough amps to do that as well as run the pump efficiently and create enough spark to get it going? If it works with the jump pack and not just on regular battery then it's more than likely the battery doesn't have sufficient amps to get it running.

It seems like you haven't really fixed your issue with spark, according to the other thread you have. It's possible you have a parasitic draw when the bike is off which could be pulling the amps down while the bike is off, or maybe the new battery isn't any good. It's not an uncommon thing. I don't know what type of multimeter you have but running a parasitic draw test would be pretty easy if it has a min/max setting that it records.
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 10:19 AM
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OK, the post above was my point.
But this post from you -

"Perhaps, but when I shut the booster off and kill the engine withe the kill switch (not the key) it will start numerous times with only 6 VDC. Even less if I let the bike sit for 5-10 minutes. Once I cycle the key off and on again, no start until the booster is once again applied."

So here is a troubleshooting thing.
Start the bike with the "booster". and then only use the kill switch, DONT turn the key.
When running what is the battery voltage.
After the kill switch is used and key still on what is the battery voltage.
AND after 5 minutes after the kill switch and the key still on what is the battery voltage.

AND maybe try this -
Start the engine, leaving key on use the kill switch, then with key still on remove positive wire from battery.
Wait a minute.
Reattach the positive (key still in on position), and try to start with no booster.


Until you make absolute sure that the battery is good nothing else matters, yet.


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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 12:24 PM
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It would be nice if folks read what he says before making comments. He clearly stated that it WILL crank over and over on the battery (no booster) once cranked with the booster and shut down with the kill switch, but with key still in the on position. If it will then crank over and over without the booster and until the key is turned off, it is probably not the battery.

@tntmo , when you checked the voltage to the ecu, did you check it after turning the key on, but before starting with the booster? Did you check it after starting with the booster, but only shutting down with the kill switch? Were the voltages between those two checks the same? I can't explain how it could be happening, but it sounds to me like you have a problem with the key switch. Something obviously changes with turning the key off.

I can't see how what you describe would happen if the starter button was dirty, but you might want to clean it. Some weird things can happen when those get dirty.
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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I have used three different batteries on this bike so far, actually four now that I'm thinking of it. First one was the battery I got with the bike, unknown age but it cranked over the bike fine. I will consider that battery not to be great, even though it charges to 12.6 VDC and cranks the bike over fine for several attempts.

Second battery was a lithium that I have here in the garage, it's smaller dimensions but has more CCA than the stock battery. I have used this battery to start my buddies Harley, it's quite powerful and is in good condition.

Third battery was a mistaken order, I ordered a YTX 16 BS-1 but it has incorrect posts for the Vulcan. I still charged it and tried to use it, same thing happened with that battery. I sold it to a friend after ordering the current battery

This battery is a newly purchased Yuasa YTX20CH-BS that I filled and charged as per their recommendations.

I'm pretty sure it's not a battery problem.

The battery had 13.08 VDC right now
Turn the key on and it dropped to 12.95, cranked and cranked with no start. Fuel pump is priming just fine. Voltage during cranking is between 11-11.5
Applied the booster at 40 amps, bike started immediately. Stator puts out 13.75 VDC at idle. Removed the booster, shut off the bike at kill switch leaving the key on. Battery is holding at 12.9 VDC. Starts immediately off the booster. Several times.
Shut off the bike at kill switch, left the key on, all lights on for five minutes. Battery is at 12.5 VDC. Started immediately.
While running, I removed the ground and the bike died. Reinstalled ground. Bike didn't start.

I don't believe it's a bad battery. Check this out.....if I turn on the key, then turn on the booster the bike will not start. If I turn the booster on first, then turn the key on, starts right up.

2006 Nomad 1600 - project
2013 Yamaha Super Tenere
2008 Husqvarna TE450
1970 Honda Trail 90
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply. I did do the ECU voltage checks (on the gray wire) from the key switch and at the ECU. Without the booster it was just over 6VDC, whether it's initially turning the key on without the booster attached (which means no start) or after getting it started on the booster and then shutting it off (which means it starts every time). Crazy, right??

It's almost like there is a switch or relay or something that gets energized once the booster is applied and it stays on until the key is cycled off. Or the ECU needs an initial shot of more voltage to get going initially and once it has started it's ok with lower voltage? It doesn't make sense.

I have already cleaned the starter button once, guess I could check it again. This bike has higher miles (65,000) but it doesn't seem like it was abused.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabre-t View Post
It would be nice if folks read what he says before making comments. He clearly stated that it WILL crank over and over on the battery (no booster) once cranked with the booster and shut down with the kill switch, but with key still in the on position. If it will then crank over and over without the booster and until the key is turned off, it is probably not the battery.

@tntmo , when you checked the voltage to the ecu, did you check it after turning the key on, but before starting with the booster? Did you check it after starting with the booster, but only shutting down with the kill switch? Were the voltages between those two checks the same? I can't explain how it could be happening, but it sounds to me like you have a problem with the key switch. Something obviously changes with turning the key off.

I can't see how what you describe would happen if the starter button was dirty, but you might want to clean it. Some weird things can happen when those get dirty.

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2013 Yamaha Super Tenere
2008 Husqvarna TE450
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