Mystery noise - Kawasaki Vulcan Forum : Vulcan Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Thin_Blu_Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 18
Mystery noise

https://youtu.be/TPjTQCvAVYg

Weird noise in the 2006 Vulcan 900 Classic... While riding sounds like rubbing, rolling of metal.,? Not loud especially and performance seems fine.

I've never owned a Vulcan but none of my other bikes made this sound.

Had the front drive sprocket cover off today and checked that.. all seems good. 🤔🤔. Any guesses?
Thin_Blu_Line is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 09:42 PM
DKC
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Eagle Lake, FL
Year/Make/Model: 2008 en500c
Displacement/CC's: 500
Color: Black
Gender: Male
Posts: 90
Garage
From listening to your video a few times, I'm hearing what sounds like your rear brake pads scuffing along the rotor. I'm discounting the thump-thumping as background noise. Since you kept aiming the camera towards the engine, I'm guessing you're hearing or "feeling" the noise in that area?

How much material is left on the rear brake pads?

Have you done an oil change recently? If not, it might be time for one. But when you do, try to drain the oil into some kind of open pan so you can look at it closely. Look for anything that looks like glitter or metal particles in the oil. A little bit of fine stuff floating is pretty normal. Bigger pieces that sink are definitely bad.

Since you have a method to lift the rear tire, try giving it a good shake side to side with it off the ground. Not enough to tip the bike, but enough to check for play or slop in the rear wheel bearings. you should have no noticeable play in the wheel to axle area.

These are just some general points to look for, and not a complete list, but it's a starting point...
DKC is offline  
post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-25-2019, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Thin_Blu_Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKC View Post
From listening to your video a few times, I'm hearing what sounds like your rear brake pads scuffing along the rotor. I'm discounting the thump-thumping as background noise. Since you kept aiming the camera towards the engine, I'm guessing you're hearing or "feeling" the noise in that area?

How much material is left on the rear brake pads?

Have you done an oil change recently? If not, it might be time for one. But when you do, try to drain the oil into some kind of open pan so you can look at it closely. Look for anything that looks like glitter or metal particles in the oil. A little bit of fine stuff floating is pretty normal. Bigger pieces that sink are definitely bad.

Since you have a method to lift the rear tire, try giving it a good shake side to side with it off the ground. Not enough to tip the bike, but enough to check for play or slop in the rear wheel bearings. you should have no noticeable play in the wheel to axle area.

These are just some general points to look for, and not a complete list, but it's a starting point...
Hey.. thanks for the comment. Yeah I originally suspected the front pulley but after getting down and close to it, is as you said I hear and feel it in the engine area.

I just changed the oil but didn't think to inspect the old stuff for debris. It was very old and I suspect the previous owner neglected it. (I just picked this bike up.) I haven't checked the brake material but I will. (It just had the safety done in April. )

As for play in the rear axel, is worth a look and I will. ... But as I ride and as I had her jacked up here... It seems to be coming from the rear jug. Its only heard as the wheel turns... Its not like I can rev in neutral or clutch and create it... So that's weird.

Again thanks for the comments I'll follow up.
Thin_Blu_Line is offline  
 
post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Thin_Blu_Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKC View Post
From listening to your video a few times, I'm hearing what sounds like your rear brake pads scuffing along the rotor. I'm discounting the thump-thumping as background noise.
No no.... That thump-thumping what I'm hearing coming from the engine area! 😬 Just reading your post again more closely.... Its not background noise. Something sounds like it's rolling around in there...
Thin_Blu_Line is offline  
post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 12:21 PM
DKC
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Eagle Lake, FL
Year/Make/Model: 2008 en500c
Displacement/CC's: 500
Color: Black
Gender: Male
Posts: 90
Garage
Before I go any further, with this new information... My advice is to NOT ride the bike until we determine the cause of this noise.

Since the bike was in neutral when you were spinning the tire, it's most likely not in the engine itself. It is beginning to sound like a bearing issue inside the transmission. Not 100% sure on that yet, but it's beginning to look that way. A trans bearing locking up or giving out could very likely lock your rear wheel up. You can imagine the rest. Another possibility is a rear wheel bearing, again, not good if it locks up.

Since I wear both hats at various times....
Shop mechanic says absolutely no riding the bike until the cause of the noise is determined and repaired.
Home mechanic says no riding the bike more than up and down the block for troubleshooting purposes, listening to noises, etc. But be ready in case something gives out and causes a major issue.

Next step mechanically is to isolate the engine/trans from the rest of the driveline. Basically, take off the belt/chain. Check the rear wheel alone, then turn the drive sprocket. If you still have noise at one or the other, You're getting closer to the cause. Also try shaking the drive sprocket up and down and in and out. Basically, shake, wiggle, push, pull any piece designed to move in every way possible. Let me know about any play on the pieces, especially areas like the drive sprocket or rear wheel.

I wish I had better news, but there is still hope. A trans repair is definitely something that can be done at home if you have the patience, time, and place to do it.

One other question, do you have a repair manual for the bike? If not, get one. You can usually download them free from manualslib in PDF format.
DKC is offline  
post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Thin_Blu_Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKC View Post
Before I go any further, with this new information... My advice is to NOT ride the bike until we determine the cause of this noise.

Since the bike was in neutral when you were spinning the tire, it's most likely not in the engine itself. It is beginning to sound like a bearing issue inside the transmission. Not 100% sure on that yet, but it's beginning to look that way. A trans bearing locking up or giving out could very likely lock your rear wheel up. You can imagine the rest. Another possibility is a rear wheel bearing, again, not good if it locks up.

Since I wear both hats at various times....
Shop mechanic says absolutely no riding the bike until the cause of the noise is determined and repaired.
Home mechanic says no riding the bike more than up and down the block for troubleshooting purposes, listening to noises, etc. But be ready in case something gives out and causes a major issue.

Next step mechanically is to isolate the engine/trans from the rest of the driveline. Basically, take off the belt/chain. Check the rear wheel alone, then turn the drive sprocket. If you still have noise at one or the other, You're getting closer to the cause. Also try shaking the drive sprocket up and down and in and out. Basically, shake, wiggle, push, pull any piece designed to move in every way possible. Let me know about any play on the pieces, especially areas like the drive sprocket or rear wheel.

I wish I had better news, but there is still hope. A trans repair is definitely something that can be done at home if you have the patience, time, and place to do it.

One other question, do you have a repair manual for the bike? If not, get one. You can usually download them free from manualslib in PDF format.
I had a bad feeling. And yes I have the downloaded repair manual.

I'll report back.
Thin_Blu_Line is offline  
post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 03:23 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Thin_Blu_Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKC View Post
Before I go any further, with this new information... My advice is to NOT ride the bike until we determine the cause of this noise.

Since the bike was in neutral when you were spinning the tire, it's most likely not in the engine itself. It is beginning to sound like a bearing issue inside the transmission. Not 100% sure on that yet, but it's beginning to look that way. A trans bearing locking up or giving out could very likely lock your rear wheel up. You can imagine the rest. Another possibility is a rear wheel bearing, again, not good if it locks up.

Since I wear both hats at various times....
Shop mechanic says absolutely no riding the bike until the cause of the noise is determined and repaired.
Home mechanic says no riding the bike more than up and down the block for troubleshooting purposes, listening to noises, etc. But be ready in case something gives out and causes a major issue.

Next step mechanically is to isolate the engine/trans from the rest of the driveline. Basically, take off the belt/chain. Check the rear wheel alone, then turn the drive sprocket. If you still have noise at one or the other, You're getting closer to the cause. Also try shaking the drive sprocket up and down and in and out. Basically, shake, wiggle, push, pull any piece designed to move in every way possible. Let me know about any play on the pieces, especially areas like the drive sprocket or rear wheel.

I wish I had better news, but there is still hope. A trans repair is definitely something that can be done at home if you have the patience, time, and place to do it.

One other question, do you have a repair manual for the bike? If not, get one. You can usually download them free from manualslib in PDF format.
Here is the latest.... Without the belt on... No noise? A bit of play in the pulley.. is this the problem??

https://youtu.be/nAsGvdM1Yvg

https://youtu.be/BP12xBFRL9Y

I sure appreciate the comments this far.. thanks.
Thin_Blu_Line is offline  
post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 04:17 PM
DKC
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Eagle Lake, FL
Year/Make/Model: 2008 en500c
Displacement/CC's: 500
Color: Black
Gender: Male
Posts: 90
Garage
After watching your videos, here's my opinion...

The rear wheel seems okay. The small hiss sound from the brakes is normal. It looked like it rolled nice and smooth, so I would look elsewhere...

The drive sprocket worries me some. It looked like you had somewhere around 1/8" play in/out. The rotational play (how far you can turn the sprocket back and forth before you feel it connect) looks like it has some pretty substantial wear.

Check your manual for tolerances. I suspect the in/out play is well above spec, and if you grab the sprocket and try to go directly up and down, you should have no play that you can feel.

This is looking to be the bearings that support the shaft the drive pulley is mounted to (commonly called the output shaft).

Looking at the parts diagrams on partzilla, it looks like your main output bearing (part # 92045) could be the culprit. Those type of bearings, once they get an imperfection on the rollers will begin whining and slowly eating themselves. If you've ever dealt with a bad wheel bearing on a car, it's very similar, just harder to diagnose because this one is inside the transmission.

Kinda FYI... when looking up the parts diagrams, I had to use both "Transmission" section and "Crankcase" section to get a full idea of the parts layout.
DKC is offline  
post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-26-2019, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Thin_Blu_Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKC View Post
After watching your videos, here's my opinion...

The rear wheel seems okay. The small hiss sound from the brakes is normal. It looked like it rolled nice and smooth, so I would look elsewhere...

The drive sprocket worries me some. It looked like you had somewhere around 1/8" play in/out. The rotational play (how far you can turn the sprocket back and forth before you feel it connect) looks like it has some pretty substantial wear.


Check your manual for tolerances. I suspect the in/out play is well above spec, and if you grab the sprocket and try to go directly up and down, you should have no play that you can feel.

This is looking to be the bearings that support the shaft the drive pulley is mounted to (commonly called the output shaft).

Looking at the parts diagrams on partzilla, it looks like your main output bearing (part # 92045) could be the culprit. Those type of bearings, once they get an imperfection on the rollers will begin whining and slowly eating themselves. If you've ever dealt with a bad wheel bearing on a car, it's very similar, just harder to diagnose because this one is inside the transmission.

Kinda FYI... when looking up the parts diagrams, I had to use both "Transmission" section and "Crankcase" section to get a full idea of the parts layout.
Well the play on the pulley is along the horizontal... Like in and out. Its maybe a couple milimeters? So there should be no play at all? There is no play on rocking forward/backwards.. and I can't move it up or down at all.

I put the belt back on loose... And hand turned it... Nothing... As I tightened it the noise returned but seems to be in the rear somewhere.... It seems to have something to do with the tension. I don't have a deflection gauge so I'm just using the marks on the frame someone earlier marked for reference. Kinda playing with the tension..looser / slacker... Seems the tighter it is the more the noise appears.

Bearings you think? Well.. thanks again.
Am I still looking at a catastrophic failure scenario?

Also check this out... Possible is the same problem???

https://www.vulcanforums.com/forums/...d.php?t=172489

Last edited by Thin_Blu_Line; 05-26-2019 at 05:24 PM.
Thin_Blu_Line is offline  
post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 05-27-2019, 11:56 AM
DKC
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Eagle Lake, FL
Year/Make/Model: 2008 en500c
Displacement/CC's: 500
Color: Black
Gender: Male
Posts: 90
Garage
The link you posted could be a possibility. The only way to check would be to pull it apart and make a visual inspection.

Since you mentioned you don't have one, get yourself a deflection gauge to properly check belt tension. I check my box, and the one I have here at home is an OTC 4748. If I remember correctly, I picked it up for less than $20 a few years ago. A quick search showed me prices between $16 and $25 now.

With the proper tension set, and a visual inspection to make sure all proper parts are in place and in good, serviceable shape, do you still have noise?

While you have the rear wheel off, actually stick your fingers inside the bearings and spin... They should be silky smooth as they turn. If they jitter or feel at all gritty, they're on their way out and should be replaced as soon as possible.

No vertical play in the drive sprocket is a good thing. As for the in/out play, it might be within specs, but refer to the manual to double check.

Putting tension on the belt can cause a dying bearing to make noise, where it wouldn't under free or no-load conditions. Not having all proper parts in place (such as that little piece mentioned to the other thread you referenced) can also throw a bearing out of alignment and cause noise/premature wear. An overtightened belt would likely make the popping noise as each tooth releases from the sprocket, unless you have significant wear on the belt generally rounding the teeth off.

We're not out of the woods yet, but there is a light at the end so to speak.

It's a matter of systematic elimination of all possible causes until the problem is determined.
DKC is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engine noise rockers and lifters replaced. Kbarske New Member Introductions 3 01-21-2018 08:34 AM
New mystery noise honest-al Vulcan 900 3 10-14-2014 10:44 PM
Grind/Rattle Noise.. possibly in clutch BuddhaNE Vulcan 2000 4 07-01-2013 03:11 PM
New mystery noise! YES! Luciferiad Vulcan 900 5 08-08-2011 09:03 PM
2001 Vulcan 1500 bad noise gacannon Vulcan 1500 15 07-02-2010 07:23 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome