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Any car audio / speaker guys in the house?

9K views 34 replies 13 participants last post by  MN-Rider 
#1 ·
I tried to ask this question on an audio specific forum but two pages later and no luck. I keep getting links to non-marine grade speakers and a bunch of people giving me solutions that aren't one of the options! Y'all around here have spoiled me the way you all answer questions here.

So anyway, this winters plans include a fairing. I've got two options, two 6x9 speakers, or 4 5.25" speakers.

Any suggestions on which would be louder? It's been my experience that you don't get much bass at speed. Just curious as to what would be louder and clearer at speed. I'm leaning towards the 6x9, because that will leave two channels open for mounting pod speakers on my tour pak later, but if the 4 5 1/4 speakers will be louder, that might be the better options.

Thoughts? An amp probably isn't an option due to the limited power output of the 900 stator. So whatever I run will just be powered by the head unit.
 
#3 ·
Thanks but it doesn't look like sierra nor JM sell the kind of stuff I'm looking for. I'm not looking for a handlebar audio system I'm looking for a system for my fairing that I'll be buying and installing later. The question was more about folks opinions on the two options listed above, not necessarily where to buy it. They both sell speakers, but for OEM fairings that use small and odd shaped speakers (5" range). I AM looking at the possibility of 5.25" speakers, but, in the standard automotive style, not the odd 'honda' shape. That, or 6x9 speakers which no OEM fairings use.

Thanks for the reply though.
 
#5 ·
Audio

Have you checked Crutchfield.com? They do a fantastic job with car audio, they have marine speakers and other electronics. The sales and tech support know their stuff and are second to none IMHO. I think three way 6x9 speakers should give you the best sound at freeway speed. Let us know what you learn thanks.

Ron m
 
#6 ·
Dollar to a donut you won't notice the difference. With that few speakers, no amp and at speed you won't know if you're listening to two 6X9's or 4 5.25's. At that point it's purely aesthetics and personal preference. One will be no louder than the other, if you feed either one 40 watts, you're going to hear 40 watts. Crutchfield is a great place to get stuff if you know exactly what you want, also you could stop by a car audio store and they could help also. It's been awhile since I was in the stereo scene but my old camaro could bounce a quarter off the roof with ZZ Top's rough boy. My suggestion is just to get what you're happy with and what you think looks the best.
 
#7 · (Edited)
6x9 all the way.

Here's why:
Speakers are not 100 % efficient. Each speaker will lose a certain amount of power just trying to move.

So you need to get as much power to the speaker as you can to get output.

Again- More speakers does not mean more decibels- unless you want tweeters screaming at you. Tweeters require little energy, mid range requires more and bass the most of all. Mids will be underpowered every time bass is called for- The bass will rob the mid range output straining to produce the bass.

MUST: get a head unit with the ability to cut the low end frequencies aka a built in "cross-over" (in this case you want to be able to cut 60hz and below). That size speaker in that style enclosure would be lucky to hit 70hz so this reduces power draw.

An alternative is a "bass blocker" rated for 60hz cut off (basically a capacitor you put on the speaker wire between the head unit and speaker), but they may draw just as much power as not having one - not sure.

Also I *think* the smoothness of "roll-off" will not be there when using a capacitor/bass blocker vs having it built into the head unit. Essentially the head unit cut at 60 would be gradual diminishing of volume from approx 80hz down to 60 whereas the capacitor would be sharper cut.

To drive the original point home:
If you have 20 watts would you rather give that to 20 speakers or 2? What would be louder then? Remember: speakers have a certain amount of loss or inefficiency. Its "sensitivity".

So get a speaker with the highest "sensitivity" rating you can find. This will give you more output/Db as it is a more efficient speaker. (The higher the sensitivity Db rating, the more efficient the speaker is).


There are a bunch of car audio no-nos here:

Lack of power, lack of separation of front and back waves (sealing front of speaker/ "air around you" from back/"cabinet". Also the L/R speakers share a common cabinet. Not the best.

If it were me:

2 6x9s or 2 6.5s

Small d class amp (optional depending on other powered farkles and what I had left in stator output)

Foam gasket to seal large gaps in fairing (if possible - never handled a fairing like this up close)

Sound Deadener (CLD type resonance Deadener) on insides of fairing to reduce vibration/resonance/Db loss. Just cover 20% of the surface area.
This is more important if the fairing /cabinet is pretty well sealed.

Poly fill (inside of a throw pillow) put inside fairing to make speakers "see" larger cabinet volume and this play lower frequencies. (With netting/ screen to keep it out of head unit aka stereo). Only if I can pretty much seal the fairing enclosure. Otherwise it's not going to do much.


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#8 ·
Okay so I'll just bring it all over to your house and have you help me out eh? LOL.

So sounds like two 6x9's is the way to go. There IS a company who makes two 6.5 speaker enclosures, but that fairing is much more expensive.

So if a stereo tells me the 'three band equalizer' can be set for:

+/- 10 dB at 60 Hz
+/- 10 dB at 1 kHz
+/- 10dB at 10 kHz

That means if I run 60hz at -10db I'm okay? Or is that not what you were talking about?

D class amp is a no go. Kawasaki says I have about 70 watts of extra juice leftover. That means a 5 amp car stereo (60 watts) is pushing it to begin with. I realize that I'm going to suffer in the quality department on that one, but, a motorcycle is an acoustical nightmare anyway. You just won't get concert sound at speed. But there is also no sense on me spending money on sub-par stuff if I can make the best of what limited options I have!

Also, from the bottom of my heart- THANK YOU for explaining why. I have asked this question on car audio forums, to guys at crutchfield, e-mailed manufacturers of fairings. I either got 'both are about the same' or an opinion one way or another, but NOBODY would tell me or explain to me why they felt that way. I already know what my two options are, I don't need a bunch of people I don't know repeating them to me! Finally though, an explanation as to why! And it makes sense.
 
#9 · (Edited)
You're quite welcome. I know how hard it is to get lucid data with this stuff. Everybody is an expert until you ask followup questions. Particularly an issue with car audio where the nebulous quality of sound is involved and we easily deceive ourselves in our pride after installation.

In general I tend to both overindulge my curiosity and need to understand the data in order to make qualified decisions about the "professional" advice I solicit. It's frustrating just trying to do something right isn't it!? In the age of eBay the quality of advice is transferring from mom n pop shops to forums where they can breed their own culture of misinformation sometimes - although I have learned a lot from them you still have to sift though and find the gurus. It's almost like you have to get into an expert level education just to build a decent budget system.

I digress...

A 3 band eq is not a substitute for a crossover. It's objective is to diminish signal intensity at a given "center" and then rope in other frequencies adjacent both above and below it on an arc with the greatest cut at the stated frequency.

So it doesn't do much for 20 hz and frequencies above that which are left unaffected by the lowest EQ setting.

If you already have the head unit and can't return it- plug it in and if needed get some bass blockers so the speakers play cleaner. Again, not sure if the caps/blockers will absorb energy and offer no power savings but at least your speakers will play cleaner/clearer by not trying to reproduce low tones it can't and distorting the cone which is trying to meanwhile play Midrange /low mid accurately.

Best bet- a head unit with a "built in crossover" and even better "variable level built in crossover".

I actually have an old kenwood with a separate Sirius receiver sitting in a box in storage. I used it 4 years or so and it's been sitting 3 years collecting dust. It has all kinds of settings you'll never need/use. I'd have to research if it would actually be a viable option CD player wise because on a motorcycle you'd def want a good amount of skip protection (a 10 second or better buffer) so if it skips it can play off the buffer while it re-tracks so playback is seamless.

When you install whatever radio you get- its gotta be secure. If the backside of it is flopping up and down its gonna skip a lot.

Also- the screen needs to be good in bright light. The best screen I ever had was on a pioneer where it had blue background illumination and black alphanumeric. I guess because of the contrasting colors it made it more legible than just the alphanumeric being illuminated. Worst was a cheap off brand with a vacuum fluorescent display. LEDs are obviously going to be much crisper and brighter than fluorescent.

Finally- pick something with large buttons so gloved fingers can operate it easily. Or with a good large rubber buttoned remote if you can find a good mounting location. Get some of that e-z pass/bristle-block style Velcro. As long as you prep the surface for adhesion that stuff will never let anything of reasonable weight break free unannounced- including large GPS's so long as you use it in the right amount and in the right plane of resistance to jolts.


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#17 ·
A 3 band eq is not a substitute for a crossover. It's objective is to diminish signal intensity at a given "center" and then rope in other frequencies adjacent both above and below it on an arc with the greatest cut at the stated frequency.

So it doesn't do much for 20 hz and frequencies above that which are left unaffected by the lowest EQ setting.
Most 3 band EQ's that I have seen have the top & bottom frequencies as "shelves" instead of notches. That means that everything below the shelf will be attenuated also with increasing amounts of attenuation the farther you get from the shelf frequency. 60Hz would be a good place to roll off unusable bass. A series capacitor will be about 6db per octave of roll-off, fairly smooth. From my experience a bass-blocking series capacitor should be less taxing on the amp's power supply giving the upper frequencies a bit more available power before clipping but it's best to do it before the amp. Remember music is dynamic, a 100w amp won't take 100w all the time, the actual long-term draw may be 1/2 to 1/3 of that especially with a class D (as mentioned) power amp.
 
#10 ·
Also: when choosing speakers look for ones that are designated ok for "infinite baffle" or "free air" installation.

What this means is that it doesn't need a sealed cabinet so much and bass response should be stronger. Although those are prob the ones with lower sensitivity ratings meaning they are liable to have a stiffer cone and thus need a bit more juice.

This is where the car audio forum can help a lot. Especially with 6x9s you should be able to find some reviews of guys who stuck em in the rear deck of their car (free air/IB 75% of the time) and how they performed.



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#11 · (Edited)
CD's? You mean those fragile, easy to scratch things they used in olden days that only held a few songs. Nah, don't need 'em! Actually the head unit I was looking at was a 'Digital media receiver', no moving parts, no CD player. It did, however, have a tray that you could slide your iPhone into! And no, I haven't bought a head unit yet.

Will an external crossover (like in a marine component system) work as well as one built into the head unit?

So, given the choice between a lower dB speaker designed for 'free air' versus one that wasn't, but with a higher dB, you'd take the free air speaker in this application? More than anything I'm looking for volume and clarity at speed, not bass. I rode an electra glide once where the tour pak had been converted into a box for a 12 inch sub. Sub was nowhere to be heard on the highway. Though the music was coming through the speakers just fine. Bass just doesn't seem to reproduce (to my ears anyway) on a motorcycle in the wind.

Finally, on the large buttons, most brands make marine 'commanders' that work even with their non marine units. These go in the dashboard of a boat and wire in to the head unit that might be mounted elsewhere. They are small enough that they can be handlebar mounted and they are waterproof. That was my plan to solve the 'button' issue. It also allows me to manipulate the head unit in the rain with the housing closed and sealed. Alternatively, there is a 'kit' to connect nearly every brand of stereo to Harley-Davidson handlebar controls. I thought about getting such a kit for whatever brand of stereo I end up with, and mounting Harley handlebar controls on my bike somehow. That would give me volume, mute, next/prev, on/off, etc.



I've been digging and searching for speakers as well. Finding ones that meet all of your criteria whilst being marine certified is challenging. But I've got at least a few weeks before I'm ready to order so, I should be good.
 
#12 ·
Okay Vulcandude, one more question

I was searching for head units with built in crossovers and I found references to high and low pass filters. Is it accurate to say high and low pass filters do what you say the head unit needs to do?

So I'm thinking about this one: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_158DSX210X/Sony-DSX-S210X.html?tp=5684

It does what I need, Sony has a wired remote that can be handlebar mounted, etc. So the question is, will it do the crossover functions I need?

Thanks,


John
 
#13 ·
Vulcanrules has pretty much covered things. Just a couple of comments... A series capacitor in the speaker line will raise the effective impedance of the speaker at the low frequencies. Degree of low frequency roll-off will depend on the speaker and the value of the capacitor. Since the capacitor "blocks" bass and does not consume power (much anyway), the saved power can be applied to the mid and high range.

BTW, the capacitor should be a "non-polar" type. Two electrolytic capacitors (polarized) of twice the desired value can be connected in series with like polarity hooked together to make a non-polar. (That is feed - lead of one, connect + to other +, and connect the other - lead to speaker. Knowing the speaker, amp characteristics, and desired response, a capacitor value can be calculated but it may be easier to use trial and error.

Glanced at the sony and I would think you could set the equalizer to reduce base response and not use the capacitor FWIW passive cross-overs are a network of capacitors and inductors...

Woody
 
#14 · (Edited)
Well, actually, filters between the amp and speakers don't really facilitate any meaningful recycling or redistribution of the power. Even though you are correct that a series cap effectively raises the impedance below the high pass point, that power can't be effectively used in other parts of the frequency spectrum because it's still tied up in the voltage component of the low frequencies. This power you speak of isn't available unless the HPF or LPF are placed before the amp so it doesn't have to swing any voltage of the signal part not being reproduced by the speaker.

Romans, you thought you could find an easy answer here... ;) That said, without making it unduly complex I do agree that Vulcanrules provided good, straightforward info as you could hope for without the complexities that Woody and I have introduced, Vulcanrules almost certainly knows about, and likely what you encountered similarly on more audio focused forums.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Yes, high pass and low pass filters in the stereo would be what you're looking for if you want to roll off frequencies above or below certain points. The filters are just like they say...low pass allows the bass/lower frequencies to pass through but rolls off the higher frequencies. A high pass filter allows the higher frequencies to pass through but rolls off the bass/lower frequencies. These filters, when used together, comprise a crossover.

High pass and low pass filters are not brick wall filters. IOW, say a high pass filter is 80Hz, everything below that is not completely blocked. The filters have sloped attenuation. The steeper the slope (in ascending order of steepness; 6dB/octave, 12dB/oct, 18dB/oct, 24dB/oct, etc.) the more the signal in the stop band is attenuated as you move further from the filter frequency.
 
#18 ·
Running at full clean output (or put another way, running to the verge of clipping) an amp will average roughly 1/8 of its power output when playing music. Some genres and stuff that's heavily compressed can increase that duty cycle but it's a good all around number. This, coupled with that you're seldom going to be running the thing WFO, means there really isn't that much average power draw despite the amp's power rating.

You're better off to get a bigger amp and have clean power available than to undersize the amp and risk sending clipped power to the speakers. Not only does clipping sound bad but it can contribute to damaged speakers as well.
 
#19 ·
The guys have pretty much covered lots of great information here.
As far as bass goes could be a few factors in that.
The box or sealed area can be a huge factor.
I would get the sealing compart that mounts behind the speaker if the fairing is not sealed.
I personally would go with the 6x9 for the lower frequency response and higher sensativity ratings.
 
#20 · (Edited)
If I could hear bass on an electra glide with subs, I'm not going to hear it out of two 6x9's no matter what I do. As long as it has clean mids and highs, and is loud enough to hear on the highway, I'm happy. I have a nice system at home and one in my car if I want really excellent quality music. I want a fairing on my bike for the looks and wind protection, and I prefer the look of these bigger fairings anyway, and the stereo is a nice plus for longer trips!

I'd be ECSTATIC if I could get decent bass, but, every bike I've ridden with a stereo, some with subs, some with aftermarket 6.5" speakers, etc. All of them the bass disappeared as you got up to speed, even though it was clean and there was plenty of it at a stop.

Running at full clean output (or put another way, running to the verge of clipping) an amp will average roughly 1/8 of its power output when playing music. Some genres and stuff that's heavily compressed can increase that duty cycle but it's a good all around number. This, coupled with that you're seldom going to be running the thing WFO, means there really isn't that much average power draw despite the amp's power rating.

You're better off to get a bigger amp and have clean power available than to undersize the amp and risk sending clipped power to the speakers. Not only does clipping sound bad but it can contribute to damaged speakers as well.
Okay so bottom line, the VN900 has roughly 6 amps of leftover alternator 'juice' per Kawasaki. (70 watts, 12 volts). I also have some extra tail lights on my tour pak (albeit LED), and I will probably convert my turn and tail to LED. So, with all of that in mind, do you still think an amp would be viable? Any suggestions on an amplifier?

Also would there be any realistic disadvantages to putting a 4 channel amp (if I went that route) in the tour pak? I could probably find a way to mount it in the fairing, but, the tour pak would be an easier mount. That would mean running the pre-amp lines under the tank back, and then the speakers wires back up to the fairing (and perhaps two more inside the tour pak to speaker pods, though I'm not 100% on whether or not I want to invest in speaker pods, definitely won't do it right away)

Alpine also has a 45W RMS x4 amp that is very small and wires inline with the stereo (using the stereos wiring harness for juice, and speaker level or RCA level inputs) so that's an option too for size.
 
#21 ·
Not sure if you wanted more advice on choosing speakers or head units. If you do, ask. Between myself and some others it looks like we can help you pick out some good stuff.

Im not a fan of Sony. Their amps were known to pop and their speakers are poor.

One reason to avoid an additional amp would be the complexity involved in installing one. Im not against it- just realize it will take more juice. In that case get a head unit with the ability to switch off the internal amp to cut the draw. Ive also heard the higher the voltage of the preouts, the louder your amp will play- although that again depends on how much your speakers can handle, if they are playing into a relatively sealed cabinet so as not to distort, etc. im probably adding a layer of complexity here unnecessarily.

Now as for additional install complexity- one reason to avoid mounting a small amp in the tour pack is the potential to pick up noise via the rcas, or worse- unshielded head unit wires used as amp signal leads.

So mounting an amp in the fairing is better from that angle, but does give more weight. In fact you may need to shim out your springs with preload and /or get stiffer springs with the weight of 6x9s, stereo, etc.






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#22 ·
Higher voltage of the preouts is mostly about the signal to noise ratio of the signal. But, yes, all other things equal a higher pre out voltage would play louder. Doesn't give you more power though, a 50W amp can still put out only 50W regardless if the input signal voltage is 1V or 5V. You're just going to hit that 50W at a lower point on the volume dial (unless you make up for it by reducing the amp's gain/input sensitivity but that's a whole 'nother topic).
 
#23 · (Edited)
So the takeaway message regarding speaker sensitivity and pre-out voltage: let them be more like ideals to shoot for but not to become too absorbed in.

In the real world on a motorcycle they may make only a tiny bit of difference in how loud and clear your system plays.

Go for a head unit you like the looks and functionality of. Go for one with built in crossovers.

If you are going to amp it, try to get a head unit that you can shut off the resident amp on (can others chime in on this idea please? Does it dininish power draw enough to warrant seeking out this feature in a head unit??) and use shielded RCAs.

If you see two head units you like, and you are going to run an external amp- get the one with the higher pre-out voltage. Otherwise don't even think twice about it- sound quality difference will be minimal at best.

Go for speakers that are "free air" or "infinite baffle" or rated for largest size cabinet space if your fairing isn't well sealed. Go for the highest sensitivity you can find in that design.

If it is well sealed- you'll find higher sensitivity (Db) options. The higher the better for greater efficiency.

Go after speakers that rate well in terms of sound in a similar application (free-air/IB, or sealed/small compartment/cabinet) with similar power.

If that level of research is ridiculous for your time/interest level- try to find a set that people like and then look at the power handling ratings for them. Particularly RMS. If its rated 125 watts RMS you definitely won't have enough power to make them sing with a resident head unit. They might sound good, but not as good as people who powered them correctly are saying.

Also- higher RMS means more juice needed in general. So get ones rated more conservatively.

If you like your highs bright: titanium or aluminum or metal-du-jour tweeters.
If you like them smoother and more laid back: silk dome or whatever fabric-du-jour. Not sure how many options exist in a weather resistant speaker.

In general- pricier head units will sound better. If you are comparing in store, and plan on using the resident amp on the head unit- the weight of the head unit can be a clue.

Now stereo manufacturers love to claim their amps (wether resident or external) are able to put out XXX watts. But they are usually talking peak watts. So you gotta look for the "continuous" rating. Not "peak". Peak means nothing but marketing lies based on something you'd never want to listen to (or could even hear- but that's another story).

And even with continuous, some manufacturers are conservative, some are nearly spot on, and others lie. Most are close in the better brands/non bottom end models.

So stick with known and better brands and the more expensive units. You will likely get what you pay for.

For speaker wire- buy whatever is on sale. Lamp cord is fine if you want overkill in terms of gage.

For power- get a beefy wire- and use the same gage for ground.

Others can suggest where to tap, where to put the fuse and if you should use a relay for greatest clean power.

Let us know how it goes!

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#24 ·
So the takeaway message regarding speaker sensitivity and pre-out voltage: let them be more like ideals to shoot for but not to become too absorbed in.

In the real world on a motorcycle they may make only a tiny bit of difference in how loud and clear your system plays.

Go for a head unit you like the looks and functionality of. Go for one with built in crossovers.

If you are going to amp it, try to get a head unit that you can shut off the resident amp on (can others chime in on this idea please? Does it dininish power draw enough to warrant seeking pit this feature in a head unit??) and use shielded RCAs.

If you see two head units you like, and you are going to run an external amp- get the one with the higher pre-out voltage. Otherwise don't even think twice about it- sound quality difference will be minimal at best.

Go for speakers that are "free air" or "infinite baffle" or rated for largest size cabinet space if your fairing isn't well sealed. Go for the highest sensitivity you can find in that design.

If it is well sealed- you'll find higher sensitivity (Db) options. The higher the better for greater efficiency.

Go after speakers that rate well in terms of sound in a similar application (free-air/IB, or sealed/small compartment/cabinet) with similar power.

If that level of research is ridiculous for your time/interest level- try to find a set that people like and then look at the power handling ratings for them. Particularly RMS. If its rated 125 watts RMS you definitely won't have enough power to make them sing with a resident head unit. They might sound good, but not as good as people who powered them correctly are saying.

Also- higher RMS means more juice needed in general. So get ones rated more conservatively.

If you like your highs bright: titanium or aluminum or metal-du-jour tweeters.
If you like them smoother and more laid back: silk dome or whatever fabric-du-jour. Not sure how many options exist in a weather resistant speaker.

In general- pricier head units will sound better. If you are comparing in store, and plan on using the resident amp on the head unit- the weight of the head unit can be a clue.

Now stereo manufacturers love to claim their amps (wether resident or external) are able to put out XXX watts. But they are usually talking peak watts. So you gotta look for the "continuous" rating. Not "peak". Peak means nothing but marketing lies based on something you'd never want to listen to (or could even hear- but that's another story).

And even with continuous, some manufacturers are conservative, some are nearly spot on, and others lie. Most are close in the better brands/non bottom end models.

So stick with known and better brands and the more expensive units. You will likely get what you pay for.

For speaker wire- buy whatever is on sale. Lamp cord is fine if you want overkill in terms of gage.

For power- get a beefy wire- and use the same gage for ground.

Others can suggest where to tap, where to put the fuse and if you should use a relay for greatest clean power.

Let us know how it goes!





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Thanks man! I appreciate the help.

I am debating between these two speakers;

Polk db691 - http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107DB691/Polk-Audio-db691.html?tp=3384

Inifnity 6921M - http://www.crutchfield.com/p_1086912M/Infinity-6912M.html?tp=3384

The Infinity has a higher sensitivity rating, but the polks are a three way instead of a two way (with a claimed 'built in crossover). Both are rated 2-100 watts RMS. Polk also has a similar 6x9 that is 2.2ohms instead of 4, but it's quite pricey.

Thoughts?

I'm wrestling with the amp situation. I'm just worried that 6 amps won't be enough juice to handle it.
 
#25 ·
I can't comment on 2.2 vs 4 ohm. I don't know enough about ohm ratings. Someone else please enlighten us!

As for "built in crossover" we'll that's just marketing. Any 2 way (coaxial) or 3 way speaker is going to have that. It's just a couple capacitors to keep you from blowing the tweeters. So it does nothing to keep those bass notes from being sent to the woofer portion which will never produce it = less power and clarity for midrange and increased power draw. Sorry but you still would want a head unit with a built in crossover. Preferably one that is selectable.

I tend to like JBL products over infinity even though they are from the same parent company. Infinity usually sounds crisper- I happen to like warmer.

I also happen to prefer 2 way over 3 way because the highs can be over represented.

Polk speakers are hit n miss... And nearly everything deserves a listening test. Also don't go by reviews on crutch field or amazon too much. Better to ask on a car audio forum for guys with boats n such. They more likely are less easily impressed. Most anything sounds better than worn out factory/oem junk.

I picked up a $75 set of Logitech computer speakers/sub that sounded light years better than their $200-300 offerings.

I also had a Panasonic head unit that sounded better than my twice the cost alpine and tracked better too.

Give the car audio forums a second shot to find some opinions.

If you yourself aren't too particular than go with whatever you think matches your bike better. I bought an alpine with a blue screen for an amber dash car once. It sounded good but screamed aftermarket and was garish to look at at night.



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#26 ·
I'm planning on following your advice of a built in crossover (which is the high pass / low pass filters, right?), but I just wanted to know if the 'built in crossover network' meant anything. Figured it was just marketing.

JBL has a 6x9 marine speaker and it is also a 100W RMS speaker, but it has a lower sensitivity rating (91db) than the others. Which do you think is better? I too prefer warmer highs.
 
#27 ·
Yes resident electronic crossovers are also referred to as high pass and low pass.

High pass is if you use a separate tweeter (component speakers where tweeter and woofer are not combined like a 2 way aka coaxial). Low pass is for frequencies below mid range to send them to a sub. In this case you won't have a sub connected.

I just had a really funny thought.
Two actually...
Ahem...
If you can get a 5 or more band eq on a head unit, you can forget about high pass low pass stuff cause you can just cut the lower bands to enough of an extent that I doubt there would be much difference in power draw or clarity between that and a low pass crossover.

You asked something similar before but it was regarding a 3 band and that's just not going to cut the lows in the way you want (without effecting mids) unless you get a 3 band parametric EQ. That means you can select specifically which frequencies are over or under represented and cut or boost respectively.

You can really dial in your sound with a parametric eq. Including what those tweeters are doing. If they are too bright, you can diminish their volume relative to the rest of the speaker frequencies but note a shrill or harsh or metallic sounding tweeter will still be edgy- just not in your face.

Now here's the second funny thought: if you are connecting an iPod you can make a custom EQ setting just for your bike and save it I think.

Cause in the presets you usually can find a "bass reducer" and then use a resident (on head unit) 3 way or better tuner to dial up the mids if you need.

This won't help you when you turn on FM radio though.

Now as far as choosing a tweeter that is smooth- usually the larger diameter and fabric (silk or otherwise) will be smoothest/least "bright".

Geez why did I start talking about crossovers when the answer was much simpler!?






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#28 ·
The 'bass reducer' mode is the mode I use with my 3.5" handlebar speakers right now. But, I intend to use a bit of FM and satellite radio, I'd like the head unit to be able to handle the sound from any source and drive it cleanly.

Okay, so it sounds like I have a winner for a head unit. Sony DSX-S210X. It has the 'clean' iPod integration I'm looking for (was looking for a rear USB port so I could hide the iPhone in a saddlebag, but in this case, the iPhone goes INSIDE the head unit, even better!) High and Low pass filters, 7 band parametric equalizer, sat radio compatible, 17 watts RMS x4.

So now I just need to make a final decision on speakers, and I'm weighing everything you've told me. Problem is there is a very limited range of options for marine grade.

Also still bouncing the amp idea around. I'm going to find out if that sony model allows the resident amp to be shut off.
 
#29 ·
If you're struggling with the power consumption worries, then you for sure want to look for higher sensitivity speakers.

For example, a 93dB/W/m speaker requires only half as much power as a 90dB/W/m speaker to reach the same volume. A speaker that is 100dB/W/m sensitivity requires only 1/10 as much power as a 90dB/W/m speaker to reach the same volume.

I'd think in an application like this where you need relatively high volumes to overcome road noise and have a limited (but adequate) power supply you'd want to look at sensitive speakers.

Gotta be careful though because sensitivities can have different measurement references. The Polk and Infinity speakers you linked earlier are excellent examples. On the surface it looks like the Infinity speaker is 3dB more sensitive than the Polk but, in fact, the sensitivities of those two speakers are equal. Here's why -

The Polk sensitivity is rated 93dB/W/m while the Infinity speaker is rated 96dB/2.83V/m. The devil is in the detail. The Polk is being driven by 1 watt of power (the "W" in the sensitivity rating) to achieve 93dB, but the Infinity is being driven by 2.83V. What's the big deal you ask? Well, since it's a 4 ohm speaker 2.83V actually equals 2 watts. So, it's not an apples to apples comparison to the Polk. If you normalize that back to 1 watt, same as the Polk, the sensitivity drops 3dB so on a level playing field both speakers are 93dB/W/m sensitivity.
 
#33 ·
Thanks for the recognition guys... Happy to be of help. But there are also some good chaps filling in some much needed gaps with great clarity!

Ive done several car stereo installs and built an audiophile system in my car recently. Nothing too crazy. Next up may be a fairing kit just like this... Especially if I move to North Carolina (going to check out Raleigh this weekend). Ive been quite envious of some of the places you guys/gals are spoiled with. Where i live its 30+ minutes of riding just to get away from the cacophony of metro NY noise:(


Sent from my iPad using Motorcycle
 
#34 ·
Raleigh County still has a lot of sub division type living. I know Big and Small places are relative to what you are used to. Raleigh would be moving to a BIG place for me. I have never been NY and do not know but by the way you are talking this would be a change to a smaller place.
 
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