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Old 11-15-2012, 03:22 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Einstein View Post
My next investment is to take the shields off and have the ceramic coated to try and match the motor, black of course
I'm having one of those 'Why didn't they just do it that way in the first place' moments...
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:32 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Lunatic View Post
I'm having one of those 'Why didn't they just do it that way in the first place' moments...
It's that "gotta have more chrome" thing. I have the Tri-Ovals on mine and I'll leave the back parts chrome, but I think the shields will look nice black
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:35 PM   #13
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I've decided that the Vaquero looks so good in Red and Black, I want as little Chrome on it as possible.

On my Chrome days, I'll ride the 1600.

I need a bigger garage...
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:53 PM   #14
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Default Ceramic Coating for Exhaust Pipes

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Originally Posted by R_W_B View Post
I have asked powder folks in the business and they say the ceramic powder coatings are the "only" ones that are high heat durable. The other (mostly epoxy based) powder coatings are durable but not as able to withstand heat near as much.

In fact, the 3 different powder shops that I talked with told me they would not garuantee any powder "except ceramic" on heat shields. The other powders are fine for handlebars, luggage racks etc, but for heat sheild they said it needs to be a ceramic based powder.

BTW my BBQ painted heat shields continued to chip off when ever I hit them with my boot. I was gonna get them powdered (for $104 locally) but instead I traded the bike in on my Nomad. I told the Kawa dealer up front that they had BBQ paint on them and that they should have a good powder job to be permanent. I was satisfied with the trade they gave me.

Alright, you’re confusing me even further. You stated earlier that “I do not like ceramic coating” so I asked you why. You never answered that question and you’re seemingly saying the opposite and praising the virtues of Ceramic Coating.

Let’s start with some coatings clarification. People use these terms interchangeably and they are not the same things. For the purposes of pipe related coatings, there is NO SUCH thing as Ceramic Powder Coating.

There Are:

-Standard Powder Coatings
-High Temp Powder Coatings
-Ceramic Coatings

As you would guess both standard and high temp powder coatings are in powder form. High temp powder coating is typically silicone based and has NO Ceramic Coating components. Ceramic Coatings on the other hand are wet sprayed, high temperature coatings which have no similarities to powder in any way, shape or form. Ceramic Coatings sometimes referred to as Thermal Barrier Coatings are FUNCTIONAL coatings for the sole purpose of either keeping heat in or out of something, much the same way your thermos works. More importantly, Ceramic Coatings are designed to withstand extreme temperatures unlike paint or high temp powders.

I agree with the shops that recommended Ceramic Coating for the shields, it’s exposed to exhaust temps so that makes sense. Now there are some powder coating shops that try to powder coat exhaust pipes & shields with both standard and high temp powder. Nine times out of ten they DON’T offer Ceramic Coating. We’ve been in the business for close to 15 years. Standard powder coating on any exhaust pipe is useless. High temp powder may work in some cases but it’s not the best choice. High temp powder is glorified BBQ paint and is good for an occasional 800F - 1100F. It only comes in a few colors and it tends to be somewhat textured. The biggest downfall to high temp powder is that it offers no thermal protection / properties like Ceramic Coating does. The Ceramic keeps the exhaust temp IN the pipe where it’s supposed to and stays cooler on the outside.

Below are a couple pics of what Black Ceramic looks like.

Hopefully this clears things up a bit.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:13 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by R_W_B View Post
I painted mine with Rustoleum BBQ paint bout 9 months ago. It was rated at 1200* F. I pulled the shields, sanded and painted them in the shed.

At first the paint wasn't very durable and I scuffed it putting them back on. So I touched it up by resanding and stuffing paper behind it in place. I was careful then not to get on it with my boot heel till I road the bike a good while. After the pipes got heated up throughly the paint fully cured and it's held fine now ever since.

The paint has ceramic particles in it and it doesn't hold good till they heat and melt down. Also what ever you are painting over make sure it's sanded thoroughly before painting. Doesn't have to be a deep coarse grit but it does need to be sanded everywhere for it to grip.

FYI, for future reference if you have to coat another pipe, assuming for the moment that the particular BBQ paint you had is capable of the stated temps, which most aren’t, it would never stick with that type of prep.

The part needs to be chemically or thermally cleaned before you do anything to it. Then it should be profiled via blasting media. Sanding the part down or scuffing it with scotch bright in most cases is actually smoothing the surface which is the opposite of what you want. The coating needs to bite into something in order for it to hold.

As for the “ceramic particles” that VHT and some BBQ paints claim to have in them, this is mostly BS. They’re jumping on the preverbal “Ceramic Coating” band wagon. The curing or melting process you’re describing is for setting the paint resin itself, not for the ceramic. You’re never going to melt a ceramic particle Unless you have access to about 3000F-4000F+….

If your parts are prepped properly, even some of the DIY paints can work for a bit…… The key to success is the prep and the cure…… If either of these is off, it's going to fail…….

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Last edited by CCPcoatings.com; 11-15-2012 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCPcoatings.com View Post
FYI, for future reference if you have to coat another pipe, assuming for the moment that the particular BBQ paint you had is capable of the stated temps, which most aren’t, it would never stick with that type of prep.

The part needs to be chemically or thermally cleaned before you do anything to it. Then it should be profiled via blasting media. Sanding the part down or scuffing it with scotch bright in most cases is actually smoothing the surface which is the opposite of what you want. The coating needs to bite into something in order for it to hold.

As for the “ceramic particles” that VHT and some BBQ paints claim to have in them, this is mostly BS. They’re jumping on the preverbal “Ceramic Coating” band wagon. The curing or melting process you’re describing is for setting the paint resin itself, not for the ceramic. You’re never going to melt a ceramic particle Unless you have access to about 3000F-4000F+….

If you’re parts are prepped properly, even some of the DIY paints can work…… The key to success is the prep and the cure…… If either of those is off, if going to fail…….

CCPcoatings.com
Thanks for the information, I appreciate the knowledge, I'm looking forward yo coating my pipes
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:16 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by CCPcoatings.com View Post

Below are a couple pics of what Black Ceramic looks like.

I've got to say, I think that bike looks -sharp- with the black heat shields.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:24 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William C View Post
I do not like ceramic coating. Do you think powercoat support high temperatures?
Quote:
Originally Posted by R_W_B View Post
I painted mine with Rustoleum BBQ paint bout 9 months ago. It was rated at 1200* F. I pulled the shields, sanded and painted them in the shed.
. . . . . .
The paint has ceramic particles in it and it doesn't hold good till they heat and melt down. Also what ever you are painting over make sure it's sanded thoroughly before painting. Doesn't have to be a deep coarse grit but it does need to be sanded everywhere for it to grip.

BTW my shields are Vance & Hines and they were powder coated new. But the powder started to fade a funny color as they got older (my bike is an 07) so I painted them a gloss black.
. . . . . . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCPcoatings.com View Post
I'm curious why you "don't like" Ceramic Coating but are interested in Powder Coating.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by R_W_B View Post
I have asked powder folks in the business and they say the ceramic powder coatings are the "only" ones that are high heat durable. The other (mostly epoxy based) powder coatings are durable but not as able to withstand heat near as much.

In fact, the 3 different powder shops that I talked with told me they would not garuantee any powder "except ceramic" on heat shields. The other powders are fine for handlebars, luggage racks etc, but for heat sheild they said it needs to be a ceramic based powder.

BTW my BBQ painted heat shields continued to chip off when ever I hit them with my boot. I was gonna get them powdered (for $104 locally) but instead I traded the bike in on my Nomad. I told the Kawa dealer up front that they had BBQ paint on them and that they should have a good powder job to be permanent. I was satisfied with the trade they gave me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCPcoatings.com View Post
Alright, you’re confusing me even further. You stated earlier that “I do not like ceramic coating” so I asked you why. You never answered that question and you’re seemingly saying the opposite and praising the virtues of Ceramic Coating.

Let’s start with some coatings clarification. People use these terms interchangeably and they are not the same things. For the purposes of pipe related coatings, there is NO SUCH thing as Ceramic Powder Coating.

There Are: -Standard Powder Coatings -High Temp Powder Coatings -Ceramic Coatings . . . . . . .

I agree with the shops that recommended Ceramic Coating for the shields, it’s exposed to exhaust temps so that makes sense. Now there are some powder coating shops that try to powder coat exhaust pipes & shields with both standard and high temp powder. Nine times out of ten they DON’T offer Ceramic Coating. . . . . . .

Hopefully this clears things up a bit. CCPcoatings.com
I just now came back and saw this thread. CCPcoatings I thank your for clearing up my ambiguity on Powder vs Ceramic. I was under the impression that Ceramic was a "powder" made from ceramic rather than epoxy etc. So you are correct in correcting me on that.

However I didn't say I "didn't like ceramic" that was another post as you replied to it. I did however (as you pointed out) ambiguiously flip back and forth the terms Powder and Ceramic thinking they were both different types of powder. I also said that the High temp paint was so full of ceramic particles (admittedly my assumption since I have no idea what's in the paint) that it did not adhere well.

The high temp paint. . .. well that was just something I did to see how it would work. It looked great for awhile, but it did not adhere well at all and would chip off if I hit it with my boot. I honestly don't know the scientific reason it chips worse than standard paint, but I do know it does.

So I have been enlightened (thanks to CCPcoatings) and now know that Ceramic is not the same as Powder. But as I always said for high heat such as pipes it's my understanding from the pros that "ceramic" is the only lasting way to go.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:18 PM   #19
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That Muzzy pipe looks very good. Did you coat that one?

I like chrome as much as the next guy, but sometimes I think the manuf. puts way too much on for stock appearance. Riding my Voyager around noon just about fries my retinas out from the sun off all the chrome. Way too much in front of you. It has the most stock chrome on any large scoot I have ever owned.

Don't get me wrong... it all looks great, but for me it is a tad too much. I would like to replace the chrome metal tank bib with a black one as I have not found a decent leather one yet, and the speaker grills from chrome to black. I don't know if the speaker grills could take the heat of ceramic coating. I don't know what an anodize process would take. But paints just don't hold up.
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