Ethanol - Kawasaki Vulcan Forum : Vulcan Forums
» Insurance
» Sponsors
Go Back   Kawasaki Vulcan Forum : Vulcan Forums > Motorcycle Models > Vulcan 1500

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-18-2012, 07:03 PM   #1
Pilgrim
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: SW Virginia
Posts: 77
Default Ethanol

I bought this bike about 3 weeks ago and the guy that had it said he only put 100% gas in it. So I was riding the other day and I needed gas but there were no gas stations near that sold 100% gas so I had no choice but to put ethanol in it. Does anybody run ethanol and should I put some kind of additive in my tank to counteract the ethanol?
There is a station about 5 miles from my house that sells pure gas but what about when I'm out ridin' and none is to be found?
Will ethanol have any effects if i run it occasionaly?

98 1500 custom.
Pilgrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-18-2012, 08:26 PM   #2
Romans5.8
Super Moderator
 
Romans5.8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 5,910
Garage
Default

You can run ethanol in that bike just fine. Some marine engines can't handle it because it was built with the expectation that ethanol free fuel would always be available at marinas. But even an 'older' bike like your 98 was built to handle ethanol in fuel. I wouldn't bother with additives or anything like that.

The only thing that I would treat 'differently' is storage. If it's going to be more than a couple weeks before you get fresh fuel (riding sporadically, storing, etc.) I'd add some fuel stabilizer to the tank (seafoam, sta-bil, etc.). Ethanol attracts water which can corrode parts, but the fuel stabilizers neutralize water. Ethanol fuel also seems to varnish much quicker (clog things up), which the fuel stabilizers fix as well. With sta-bil or seafoam in the tank, used per instructions, you could leave that gas in for a year if you had to.

I'd also drain the carbs in extended storage (more than a few weeks). Just as an extra precaution against the fuel gumming things up. There are drain screws under the carbs, drain the carbs out, and then spray some fogging oil into them to prevent rusting. If it's less than a few weeks (like maybe just sitting through a cold spell) then just running a fuel stabilizer and running the engine long enough to work it through the fuel system is more than adequate.

Good luck!

-John
__________________
"8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Romans 5:8 (NIV)

2006 Vulcan 900 Classic LT "Couch-a-Saki/Mini-Bagger"

2011 Honda Shadow Aero 750 (Wife's)
Romans5.8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 09:25 PM   #3
spoon059
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 15
Default

I think 99% of gas stations in the US run at least 10% ethanol blend. If you drive a lot, its not an issue. If your bike is going to sit for a while, put some fuel stabilizer with ethanol fighters in it.
spoon059 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 10:32 PM   #4
Romans5.8
Super Moderator
 
Romans5.8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 5,910
Garage
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spoon059 View Post
I think 99% of gas stations in the US run at least 10% ethanol blend. If you drive a lot, its not an issue. If your bike is going to sit for a while, put some fuel stabilizer with ethanol fighters in it.
Many states and local jurisdictions are mandating it now. Since the ethanol itself is made from corn, the idea is that 10% ethanol could, in theory, reduce oil dependancy by 10%. Although that's a very synthetic number since many vehicles seem to get poorer fuel economy with ethanol fuel so that kind of bites into those savings a little.
__________________
"8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Romans 5:8 (NIV)

2006 Vulcan 900 Classic LT "Couch-a-Saki/Mini-Bagger"

2011 Honda Shadow Aero 750 (Wife's)
Romans5.8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 10:47 PM   #5
spoon059
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romans5.8 View Post
Since the ethanol itself is made from corn, the idea is that 10% ethanol could, in theory, reduce oil dependancy by 10%.
Unfortunately it takes 1.29 gallons of gas to make 1 gallon of E15, which is 85% gas and 15% ethanol. In and of itself, it wastes more gas simply burning a gallon of gas.

On top of that, the corn has to be trucked, moved by train or barge/boat to refineries. We need to consider how much fuel we are burning just to transport the corn to waste gas to make crappier gas.

Then we can consider that most vehicles can expect to lose about 3 to 4 miles per gallon with E10 (according to the Dept of Energy). E15 gets even WORSE mileage.

Then you consider that a gallon of E15 gas has 2/3's the energy of straight gas, you have less overall power from your engine.

Then when you consider the cost of neccessary additives to fight the negative effects of the ethanol, you are spending WAY more money, getting WAY less power, losing 1-2% of your mileage and possibly damaging older equipment and a lot of farm and garden equipment that was never meant to run on ethanol blend.

On top of that, with so much corn being diverted for this scheme, it costs beef farmers more money to feed their cattle, which translates into higher food costs.

Sorry, my Steelers just lost a close game that we should have won, ethanol is a SCAM that benefits nobody but corn farmers, and my 5.5 week old daughter will not stop crying and go to bed. All done...

Last edited by spoon059; 11-18-2012 at 10:49 PM.
spoon059 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 10:58 PM   #6
Romans5.8
Super Moderator
 
Romans5.8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 5,910
Garage
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spoon059 View Post
Unfortunately it takes 1.29 gallons of gas to make 1 gallon of E15, which is 85% gas and 15% ethanol. In and of itself, it wastes more gas simply burning a gallon of gas.

On top of that, the corn has to be trucked, moved by train or barge/boat to refineries. We need to consider how much fuel we are burning just to transport the corn to waste gas to make crappier gas.

Then we can consider that most vehicles can expect to lose about 3 to 4 miles per gallon with E10 (according to the Dept of Energy). E15 gets even WORSE mileage.

Then you consider that a gallon of E15 gas has 2/3's the energy of straight gas, you have less overall power from your engine.

Then when you consider the cost of neccessary additives to fight the negative effects of the ethanol, you are spending WAY more money, getting WAY less power, losing 1-2% of your mileage and possibly damaging older equipment and a lot of farm and garden equipment that was never meant to run on ethanol blend.

On top of that, with so much corn being diverted for this scheme, it costs beef farmers more money to feed their cattle, which translates into higher food costs.

Sorry, my Steelers just lost a close game that we should have won, ethanol is a SCAM that benefits nobody but corn farmers, and my 5.5 week old daughter will not stop crying and go to bed. All done...

Haha it's all good. Nah I wasn't taking any 'side' on the ethanol debate, just explaining in short-scale what I understand to be the reasoning behind diluting our fuel with ethanol.
__________________
"8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Romans 5:8 (NIV)

2006 Vulcan 900 Classic LT "Couch-a-Saki/Mini-Bagger"

2011 Honda Shadow Aero 750 (Wife's)
Romans5.8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 11:30 PM   #7
spoon059
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romans5.8 View Post
Haha it's all good. Nah I wasn't taking any 'side' on the ethanol debate, just explaining in short-scale what I understand to be the reasoning behind diluting our fuel with ethanol.
Sorry, I hope my post didn't come across as attacking you, it was not my intention. Ethanol blend is NOT the answer to our long term fuel solution. Its a poor band aid fix. Instead of pissing away money on ethanol, we need to explore ways to make internal combustion vehicles more efficient and maintain neccessary power levels (trucking, towing, etc) and alternative fuels that make neccessary power.
spoon059 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 11:44 PM   #8
Romans5.8
Super Moderator
 
Romans5.8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 5,910
Garage
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spoon059 View Post
Sorry, I hope my post didn't come across as attacking you, it was not my intention. Ethanol blend is NOT the answer to our long term fuel solution. Its a poor band aid fix. Instead of pissing away money on ethanol, we need to explore ways to make internal combustion vehicles more efficient and maintain necessary power levels (trucking, towing, etc) and alternative fuels that make necessary power.
I really think we have the technologies in existence we are just too afraid to use them. We live in a world where people get the heebie jeebies about things they don't understand and refuse to do any research. Case and point is the old lady in the checkout line who pays with cash because she 'doesn't trust computers', but the cash came out of her bank account through a computer! (Or worse, she writes a check, processed through the same bank systems that would process a debit card). There is a much greater risk of her being mugged and losing cash than of some sort of computer glitch causing her to be double charged and having to go a couple days before those funds are replenished in her account..

Look at diesel. It is, by definition, more thermally efficient than gasoline. Yet we don't seem to want to adopt that over-100-year-old technology because people aren't used to it. 60mpg diesel cars are all over other markets (europe), cheap, reliable, and without all of the complicated stuff that goes into other 60mpg cars (hybrids). It cracks me up that people won't even consider a diesel because they are concerned about maintenance and repair costs, but they will readily buy a gas electric hybrid complete with batteries, invertors, electric motors, etc. It's true that repairs cost more on a diesel, but it's also true that they happen with much less frequency!

If we can get 60 miles per gallon out of a hybrid running a small and inefficient gas engine, I imagine 75+ miles per gallon could be done by replacing that hybrid with a diesel engine. 40mpg is common with diesel cars, with 60 not being unheard of. Why can't we have those here? I know the typical market says a gas powered automatic, but I'd love a diesel with a 6 speed. Volkswagen makes them, yes, but I imagine the technology could be much better if the market was using the better of the two technologies in more than just a handful of cars.

Guess what Ford just released? A brand new Ford "EcoNetic" Diesel Focus. It's available only in the european market, and it gets SIXTY-SEVEN miles per gallon. That's better than any hybrid, but you do without the expensive maintenance of a hybrid. I'd venture to say that there are quite a few good local shops that can work on a small diesel, I don't think the same could be said for a hybrid outside it's gas engine. And again, you could take the good with the bad if you could combine the technologies. If a gasoline hybrid gets 10mpg better than it's straight-gas counterparts (in the example of cars where hybrid is an option). Imagine what a hybrid version of a 67mpg car would get...

Anyway, I'm with ya man, if we want to cut back our dependency on oil the solution is not the oil, it's what we burn. Ethanol and refining processes seems to me like giving blood to a gunshot victim, and then continuing to give more blood, only now mixing it with more platelets or red blood cells or whatever to make the blood cheaper, but still pumping in more and more blood, even though you have the tools and skills ALREADY THERE to close the wound up.

But anyway...

Edit: I remember a while back someone said the reason we don't have diesel hybrids is the start/stop. Well, I was doing some more reading on this new diesel focus, it shuts itself down at a stop and restarts when you hit the gas using the starter to nudge you forward! (kind of like how a golf cart works). So evidently, there is no reason why a diesel can't be restarted as quickly as a gas engine. (The reasoning was, the high compression of a diesel would make restarts inefficient due to more energy needed to start it). This is not a hybrid, but it does share some of the same technologies. For example, it uses regenerative braking to take the load off of the alternator (power the lights, stereo, etc.) reducing even the tiny bit of extra fuel needed to operate the 12 volt system! It's 103 horsepower and runs about $25k converted to USD. (That's alot for a compact car, but if you're a commuter I imagine you'd make that back quick)

If they could be imported into the US (and they can't, due to not having been certified by the EPA, even though I cannot imagine how a 67mpg diesel wouldn't pass when 7mpg diesels transport all of the goods we use), I would seriously consider one. There can't be any motivation to have two product lines. Surely it would be cheaper for Ford to be selling the focus with the 1.9L turbodiesel (which, btw, IS standard, though the 'eco' one with all of the fuel saving features is extra) to everyone, rather than the 1.9TDI there and the 2.2(?) gas engine here. I can only draw the conclusion that they have determined that this market won't buy the diesel version, and that market won't buy the gas version. I think they got the better end of that deal!
__________________
"8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Romans 5:8 (NIV)

2006 Vulcan 900 Classic LT "Couch-a-Saki/Mini-Bagger"

2011 Honda Shadow Aero 750 (Wife's)

Last edited by Romans5.8; 11-18-2012 at 11:55 PM.
Romans5.8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 07:52 AM   #9
whoaru99
Top Contributor
 
whoaru99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spoon059 View Post
Unfortunately it takes 1.29 gallons of gas to make 1 gallon of E15, which is 85% gas and 15% ethanol. In and of itself, it wastes more gas simply burning a gallon of gas.

On top of that, the corn has to be trucked, moved by train or barge/boat to refineries. We need to consider how much fuel we are burning just to transport the corn to waste gas to make crappier gas.

Then we can consider that most vehicles can expect to lose about 3 to 4 miles per gallon with E10 (according to the Dept of Energy). E15 gets even WORSE mileage.

Then you consider that a gallon of E15 gas has 2/3's the energy of straight gas, you have less overall power from your engine.
As far as MPG goes for E10 believe that it's 3-4% less, not 3 - 4 mpg less. Of course, if your car/motorcycle got 100mpg, then 3% and 3mpg would be pretty much the same.

Also, E15 blend isn't 2/3 the energy of straight gas, it's 94%.

If you wanna bash the politics of ethanol, whatever, but the numbers pretty much are what they are and we can get those fairly close.

Last edited by whoaru99; 11-19-2012 at 07:58 AM.
whoaru99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 08:41 AM   #10
mikepatterson.80
Member
 
mikepatterson.80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 93
Default

Romans 5:8,
You have articulately stated what I have been screaming for years. Diesel-electrics power the biggest vessels in the world(locomotives, tankers, freighters) because they are the most efficient method of producing power available, yet it has not been implemented on a smaller scale. Why. . . (insert conspiracy theory here)...
mikepatterson.80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum