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Old 11-09-2012, 08:07 AM   #31
Bubba in TX
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Weight for weight, certification for certification, grade for grade, synthetics are superior to conventional oils in all applications---period. To maintain differently is a matter of opinion or ignorance, but far removed from fact.
Whatever... I am sure syn oil is slick and all that good stuff... has all kind of certificates, guaranteed not to wrinkle, tinkle, rub, rust, bust, collect dust, or slide down hill in a rain storm, however...

I was in a seminar in 2002 talking face to face with three engineers from Chrysler who designs their engines. They told the 100 or so of us there that there is NO REASON to waste your money on synthetic oil, mass produced engines are not designed to take advantage of it, the tolerances are not all that critical as in performance engines, and you can go from syn to standard oil back and forth all you want. And none of them see a need nor do they use syn oil. (I admit at that time anyway, who knows what they do now)

They made a living designing engines.... So I guess they are dumb asses too.... Hmmmmmmm.....

I have no performance engines in anything I own including my Voyager.

They said the key to engine life is regular oil change no matter what you use. I know people that go 6000 to 8000 miles between oil changes because they say you can using syn oil...

Your mileage may vary..... just saying.....

Engine oil....
Car tires.....
Batteries.....
Oil change intervals....

Bring out the BEST discussions.... you gotta love it....
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:00 AM   #32
TX1677095
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Originally Posted by Bubba in TX View Post
They told the 100 or so of us there that there is NO REASON to waste your money on synthetic oil, mass produced engines are not designed to take advantage of it...none of them see a need nor do they use syn oil. (I admit at that time anyway, who knows what they do now)
So, in other words, they told you that, even ten years ago, it was their professional opinion that synthetic oils were superior to conventional oils? Got it. Sounds like they were, indeed, a pretty well-informed group.

Back to the original post. Any mechanic, "old-school" or otherwise, who tells you that the way to solve a persistent engine knock is by replacing a synthetic oil with a similarly graded conventional one is not much of a mechanic. I mean, if you really want to quiet things down (however briefly) let's just load the crankcase up with some 90W gear oil. Imagine how quiet things will be for a minute or two!

Obviously, the way to correct an engine knock is to identify the true cause of the knock and fix what's wrong, and what's wrong is not the fact that someone may have chosen to use a synthetic oil.
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:26 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by TX1677095 View Post
Obviously, the way to correct an engine knock is to identify the true cause of the knock and fix what's wrong
My suggestion to stop most recent Kawis from Knocking would be to have a simple user-adjustable timing control on these bikes (but the EPA doesn't want us to have such control).

I'm with Bubba on the issue of Oil.
Arguments about synthetic vs. dino don't accomplish much
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:33 AM   #34
Bubba in TX
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Not one time was the word superior ever used in the discussions between engines and oil concerning syn oil. Other than it was not needed in your family vehicle. We both can get 300k miles from the same engine. You using syn, me not using syn. I have over 300k miles on my 2001 PT Cruiser. Never had syn in it. I got 80k in my 06 Ranger. It has Syn in it since the first oil change...

No big deal either way... they both will last forever.... to syn or not to syn.... whatever floats your boat... go for it...

I was always under the impression that 30w regular oil and 30w syn oil were the same weight. Am I wrong? One is made from dead animals, and the other man made... or something like that...

I always wondered why some people would only use Valvoline oil, or Shell oil, or whatever brand exclusively. I thought the only difference would be the additives each brand threw in the bucket.

Isnt it the same with syn oil? It is only as good as the additives in it. Granted the additives are good according to some... but they are in regular oil too, but to say using regular oil will ruin your engine and syn oil will save your engine is not correct either. I have heard people say that.

They make syn 90w gear oil too... I run that in the finals of my Yamaha's.

Yes, I doubt if an engine knock is cause by the use of the oil either it be regular of syn. It knocks because it may an inherent built in one or something has happened to cause it. A possible mechanical issue. Not necessarily a oil issue. I suppose it can happen if you use improper weight oil or let it go until it turns into sludge. But to say to only use is synthetic oil, is also not correct.

You still gotta love it.... the closest thing I have to a performance engine I guess would be my lawn mower. It runs full throttle the entire time it is running. Regular oil in it too. Might try syn next oil change for next season. Who knows?

You guys only have to go down the street to get syn oil. I have to go 200 miles to get it. I can get Valvoline regular in our grocery store. They dont have syn... the NAPA dealer here wont carry syn... you can order it for 10 bucks a quart...

You can throw in you next dig... I'm done... this one was fun... since bottom line is, we both are right... both oils are good for what you need.
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Bubba in TX

A bad day on a motorcycle is better than a good day in a car

Some people collect T-shirts
I actually ride

2011 Voyager "Betty Clunker"
Running
DARK SIDE

Voyager 1700 owners...
WRAP your pipes....
You will be glad you did...

U.S.A.F. Retired
Nye Co. Motor Officer Retired


Last edited by Bubba in TX; 11-09-2012 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:07 AM   #35
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I think you guys are saying the same thing. I'm sure those Chrysler engineers were aware that the synthetic oil was more resistant to shearing, stayed in grade better, etc. But they were also aware that their engines could easily last hundreds of thousands of miles on conventional oil changed at regular intervals. This is probably true of our motorcycles too. In other words synthetic isn't bad or good in the eyes of those engineers, it's just not necessary. To say that synthetic oil could damage your engine or cause mechanical failure, is ill informed. Just like the old myth that you can't mix them or change between them. They are perfectly compatible. Many manufacturers even sell 'blends' that are mixes of synthetic and conventional right in the bottle!

I think the issue at hand though, is the idea that running Kawi conventional will somehow cure an issue in the engine. It really doesn't make much sense. There's an ill informed myth going around that synthetic oil is 'too slippery' and will cause poor lubrication on some engines because it will just wash away. It's not water it's oil, and synthetic and conventional oils are rated using the same scale. 30 weight oil, regardless of brand or type, will flow at the same rate.

And actually, syn and conventional are both made from oil out of the ground. It's just that synthetic oil uses more superior base stocks of oil, and often have better additive packages (simply because of cost, an inexpensive conventional oil is cheap because not a lot was spent on additives!)

As far as the engine knock caused by oil, on some older engines (never heard of it on the 1700), especially pushrod twins, if the engine is stopped in just the right position, oil can 'leak down' from the top end of the engine and leave the top end dry. For whatever reason, it takes these motors a couple of minutes to get oil back up in the entire valvetrain, causing a loud knocking from the dry valvetrain. Some have cured it by experimenting with different weights and grades of oil. Mobil 1 and Amsoil have additives that allows the oil to better 'cling' to parts, which may be why those oils lessen or cure the issue in some engines.

I run synthetic oil, but not really because of longevity. You don't really hear too much about oil related failures. But, synthetic keeps it running cooler, makes it shift quieter, clutch performance is improved, etc. I run Valvoline synthetic motorcycle FWIW, because I can get that locally.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:31 AM   #36
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Mr. Bubba, you are a class act. A Texas salute to you!

I thought I had an engine knock. Come to find out, it was that trim ring on the tank around the key/ignition knob. All quiet now.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:16 PM   #37
Bubba in TX
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Stazjemo.

yep, same noise on mine when I got it.
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Bubba in TX

A bad day on a motorcycle is better than a good day in a car

Some people collect T-shirts
I actually ride

2011 Voyager "Betty Clunker"
Running
DARK SIDE

Voyager 1700 owners...
WRAP your pipes....
You will be glad you did...

U.S.A.F. Retired
Nye Co. Motor Officer Retired

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Old 11-09-2012, 01:30 PM   #38
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well I put a 100 very chilli miles on the bike since the oil change (kaw 10w40 conventional) IT'S 50-70% QUIETER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am gonna do another 200-300 miles this weekend and I am hoping it goes away completely
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:32 PM   #39
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and It was valve train noise....I can't explain it but damn it's better....a lot better
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2009 Voyager Silver/Black 30,000+miles
Ipod adapter, intercom system, rear speakers, caliper covers, engine cover, passenger floorboard covers, trunk & saddle bag liners
Dually offset pegs, shifter cover, brake pedal cover
Trailer hitch Bad boy air horn Drivers back rest
Sheep Skin Seat & back rest covers
Trunk rack Phatrisers Handlebar risers
14 dark tint Windshield Passenger foot pegs
Slip on mufflers Gps mount Cup holder
fr. fender rails, ISO grips, billet dipstick
wrapped headers
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:42 PM   #40
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AudiDoc..

Thanks for your feedback, ..............
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Bubba in TX

A bad day on a motorcycle is better than a good day in a car

Some people collect T-shirts
I actually ride

2011 Voyager "Betty Clunker"
Running
DARK SIDE

Voyager 1700 owners...
WRAP your pipes....
You will be glad you did...

U.S.A.F. Retired
Nye Co. Motor Officer Retired

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