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Old 11-07-2012, 07:00 AM   #1
Dozrtravlin
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Default A question about cooling systems and VV heat

As I/we have discussed many times in the forum our bikes run hot. The Kam's kit and wrapping the pipes has mostly sorted out the rider discomfort. However as I have said in other posts my bike runs up towards the red line (Temp) a majority of the time and there are a couple of others experiencing something similar

I had engine ice and now a product available in Australia called 'liquid intelligence 115' it has a boiling point of 192 c. . The bike runs close to the red line on the gauge but the bike shows no symptoms of running hot.

I spoke to the Liquid Intelligence company tech's and they suggested that as the sensor for the temp gauge is high in the system it may in fact be reading water vapour trapped during the change over from OEM liquid. They have had this reported on a few occasions and once the water is completely gone from the system the bike runs normally again. Both my self and the dealer have checked there is no trapped air and have tried to ensure no water was left in the radiator on fluid changeover.

They suggested it isn't hard to "miss" and quite a/few custom cars and bikes as well as water cooled dirt bikes are often affected. They asked that I run the bike (idle) with the radiator cap of until it gets to about 100c, if necessary disconnect the fan so it heats up quickly. They suggested that doing this without letting it get to the red line should allow any trapped water in the system to evaporate.

Not being a mechanic myself what do others think? I guess this would also apply to engine ice users whose bikes run hotter then one would expect.
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Last edited by Dozrtravlin; 11-07-2012 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:29 AM   #2
Scott_in_TX
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I am not a mechanic, but something seems a little fishy with their explanations.

If you were running with engine ice; and the coolant temp was near red line. Then changed to another product and the coolant temp is still near the red line.
I would assume the new product is cooling similar to the engine ice.

Running the bike with the radiator cap off seems like a bunch of run around. If you have ridden it a few times with a warm up and cool off period; any vapor should have exited the system via the overflow. (I am assuming the liquid intelligence is not a water mix?)

As per RnR; pure water in a 16psi system, boils at approximately 260F; which is well above the first red line temp.
If this product is supposed to make the bike run cooler; why is it hot enough to create vapor in a pressurized system at all?

During warmer weather here in TX; I had a warm engine knock at idle.
My coolant gage could get a little past the last white tick mark; and the knock still would not be present.
I had to run it for about 30 minutes before it would show up. I believe that it was my oil temperature that mattered.
Only the top end of these 1700s are liquid cooled; I am thinking about focusing attention on better cooling for the oil.
I am definitely going to use full synthetic; and I am going to look for cooling fins for my oil filter, and maybe a cooling ring.

Scott
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:47 PM   #3
Bubba in TX
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I have the engine ice, and mine rarely goes over the 3/4 mark even when sitting idling in traffic. When the fan comes on it usually just hangs below the 3/4 mark when sitting still. The stock coolant it would go to the red. Not since the engine ice. Even on a 110 degree day. Also I have not had any hot engine knocks either on throttle up under load, and I pull a trailer all the time.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:40 PM   #4
Dozrtravlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba in TX View Post
I have the engine ice, and mine rarely goes over the 3/4 mark even when sitting idling in traffic. When the fan comes on it usually just hangs below the 3/4 mark when sitting still. The stock coolant it would go to the red. Not since the engine ice. Even on a 110 degree day. Also I have not had any hot engine knocks either on throttle up under load, and I pull a trailer all the time.

Damn I wish I could say the same the bike is out of warranty and only has about 25000 miles on it and I'm sick of throwing good money at this one problem. I changed from Engine Ice for the same problem. My dealer suggested that under high ambient temps e.g. 90 + there may be a cavitation on the water pump but again that just means dollars. I stress that the bike does not appear hot just the gauge shows hot and all have been checked.
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LED's around Headlight,
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Marvellas passenger and rider highway pegs,
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba in TX View Post
I have the engine ice, and mine rarely goes over the 3/4 mark even when sitting idling in traffic. When the fan comes on it usually just hangs below the 3/4 mark when sitting still. The stock coolant it would go to the red. Not since the engine ice. Even on a 110 degree day. Also I have not had any hot engine knocks either on throttle up under load, and I pull a trailer all the time.
I have no knock under any acceleration; only at idle, when the engine has been warm for a while.

The issue is discussed in this thread.
http://www.vulcanforums.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=15617

I have used a mechanics stethescope to isolate it to the top of the front jug.
The knock will go away if I increase RPMs.

Scott
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:13 PM   #6
Bubba in TX
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Dozer... see if your dealer has an infrared temp sensor or some one else and see what the outside temp of the radiator is when you are showing hot. I have access to several really good ones.

Might not hurt to remove the radiator and ALL tubing and inspect them for partial clog from paint chips. Some have reported the floating paint chips in their coolant. I did not see any when I did mine. Remove the thermostat and see what happens. When I added the engine ice, while I had the tank and everything else off on the cooling system I checked my thermostat in hot water on a burner to see when it opened. I do not remember the water temp reading, but it was what it was supposed to be. (I cant remember yesterday lately much less a year ago.......)

By the way, I carry extra engine ice just in case I need to add to the recovery tank, and on antifreeze systems I carry a bottle of distilled water. Using tap water here you are asking for problems....

And yes.... it may be showing hot on the dashboard and not really be hot in the engine. Gauges are just a visual indicator and they can be off..... If your scoot is overly hot, you would know it by the seat of your pants and the way it is acting.

Just a couple of ideas anyway. When I have a cooling problem I always inspect the coolant tubes, and remove and check the thermostat and see what happens. (actually I do the thermostat first....)

Some scoots are easier than others, and I think the Voyager is fairly easy to do all that compared to other scoots I have owned.

I liked the Venture with no temp gauge. During one four mile long parade on a 110 degree day I thought it would get hot, but never acted like it was. Several of our group dropped out. But on the Voyager I think three gauges would be nice. Top of engine at water outlet, radiator inlet, radiator outlet.....
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A bad day on a motorcycle is better than a good day in a car

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WRAP your pipes....
You will be glad you did...

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Last edited by Bubba in TX; 11-07-2012 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:24 PM   #7
Dozrtravlin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba in TX View Post
Dozer... see if your dealer has an infrared temp sensor or some one else and see what the outside temp of the radiator is when you are showing hot. I have access to several really good ones.

Might not hurt to remove the radiator and ALL tubing and inspect them for partial clog from paint chips. Some have reported the floating paint chips in their coolant. I did not see any when I did mine. Remove the thermostat and see what happens. When I added the engine ice, while I had the tank and everything else off on the cooling system I checked my thermostat in hot water on a burner to see when it opened. I do not remember the water temp reading, but it was what it was supposed to be. (I cant remember yesterday lately much less a year ago.......)

By the way, I carry extra engine ice just in case I need to add to the recovery tank, and on antifreeze systems I carry a bottle of distilled water. Using tap water here you are asking for problems....

And yes.... it may be showing hot on the dashboard and not really be hot in the engine. Gauges are just a visual indicator and they can be off..... If your scoot is overly hot, you would know it by the seat of your pants and the way it is acting.

Just a couple of ideas anyway. When I have a cooling problem I always inspect the coolant tubes, and remove and check the thermostat and see what happens. (actually I do the thermostat first....)

Some scoots are easier than others, and I think the Voyager is fairly easy to do all that compared to other scoots I have owned.

I like the Venture with no gauge. But on the Voyager I think three would be nice. Top of engine at water outlet, radiator inlet, radiator outlet.....

Thanks Mate,

The only thing that hasn't been done at this point is the infrared thermometer and inspecting the tubes. I guess if I go ahead with checking the water pump the pipes can be checked then. It has a new radiator with the Kams kit but was still playing up prior to installing it.

When I changed from engine ice to the liquid intelligence I removed plenty of fine particles from the overflow tank and the dealer drained and strained the coolant to remove anything left behind. As I said if it wasn't for that gauge I wouldn't believe it was hot.
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2009 Voyager, "Battle Star"
SageBrush Bib,
LED's around Headlight,
Chrome cup holders,
Marvellas passenger and rider highway pegs,
Grasshoper backrest,
Kawasaki Gel seats,
Grey Sheepskin Seat covers,
Kawasaki Rear Speakers,
Ipod Kit,
H.D. trunk rack,
Chrome passenger board covers,
Chrome Engine plate,
Door Controller,
Fog Lights wired to High Beam on/off.
Speedo Healer, Backoff Brake Module
KAM's heat kit

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Old 11-08-2012, 01:16 AM   #8
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If the seat of your pants and the machine itself is indicating it isn't hot. It's probably not as hot as the gauge indicates.. Just like a tach. I learned I can live without one of those too with the Venture. It would still fly without it.

One of our new guys stopped me one day doing 145 coming across a valley floor.....

Yes I was on my own scoot off duty....

(short story about that is, I was trying to catch a motor home that had lost its trailing car which left it upside down in the middle of the highway, cell phones did not work out there then, neither did our radios)
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A bad day on a motorcycle is better than a good day in a car

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Old 11-08-2012, 04:16 AM   #9
Dozrtravlin
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I tried the suggestion about running without the radiator cap and aside from blowing fluid everywhere it made no difference? I took the bike to the dealer a 35 mile ride at around 3200 rpm for most of the way. The temps stayed stable for the first 20 miles then ran up to almost the red over the last few miles. He did not have a infrared thermometer available but we both checked the engine chrome head covers radiator and top hoses. We found we were able to keep our hands on all parts, apart from the hoses for a few seconds. He connected the computer to the bike and found the sensor was transmitting the temps according to specs and the gauge responded accordingly. By reving the bike he was able to get the gauge and the computer readout into the red.

Yet again everything felt normal. Conclusion short of infrared temperature check is that the sensor for whatever reason is giving high readings either from trapped air or water once the bike has been at operating temps for about 20 minutes or more. So to put it bluntly
Stuffed if I know
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2009 Voyager, "Battle Star"
SageBrush Bib,
LED's around Headlight,
Chrome cup holders,
Marvellas passenger and rider highway pegs,
Grasshoper backrest,
Kawasaki Gel seats,
Grey Sheepskin Seat covers,
Kawasaki Rear Speakers,
Ipod Kit,
H.D. trunk rack,
Chrome passenger board covers,
Chrome Engine plate,
Door Controller,
Fog Lights wired to High Beam on/off.
Speedo Healer, Backoff Brake Module
KAM's heat kit

BLue Knights BKAUS11 and
BlueLiners Australia

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Old 11-08-2012, 08:18 AM   #10
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My bike's temp gauge has never gone past where the radiator fan comes on. Even sitting for 5 minutes or more. Actually the fan is enough to bring the temp down and the fan shuts off.

It was time to service my cooling system so I decided that I might as well switch to engine ice. I followed the instructions on their website about flushing the system with vinegar and distilled water, and then just distilled water, before putting in the engine ice. I also filled it very very slowly so I would not trap any air in the system. That took a lot of patience for sure. I also squeezed the hoses to make sure there was no water trapped in them as well.

I won't know until next summer if the bike runs any better than with the OEM coolant, but I know it is safer for my barn cats and other animals if any happens to drip.

After the switch I let the bike run for 15 minutes at idle and the fan came on, the bike cooled and the fan switched off.

If you fan continues to run, or the temp continues to climb after the fan comes on, there is definitely something not right with your cooling system.
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