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Old 11-03-2012, 06:16 AM   #11
Old Syko
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Although this thread was started with a different premise in mind, I knew it would drift into another Have To Wear A Helmet thread chock full of useless statistics and false information. Statistics are numbers only and worth nothing when your personal case happens to fall outside the norm. Forget statistics since within the realm of reality they serve no purpose.

As far as the fit of a helmet goes, if it is comfortable you have the wrong one. Yes, there is a difference in quality but it isn't what most people think and it isn't always determined by price. A helmet that doesn't fit VERY tight may well do as much harm as good and this goes for both 3/4 and full. Skull caps are merely a work around to thwart the asinine helmet laws so I will not even consider them in any conversation about protection. As someone who has actually taken advantage of the equipment by putting it to use for it's intended purpose I assure you numbers and comfort neither serve any purpose in the choice of which helmet to use.

As a prime example of what not to use, I looked at helmets the other day that had a rubberized coating on the outside. As someone who has made the slide for life trip both due to wrecks and intentionally to avoid dying, I assure you the last thing you want is for that helmet to get traction at a different rate than the rest of you no matter if the thing fits correctly or not.

Long story short, don't get caught up in consumer hype and cosmetics and don't buy into the old wives tales that any helmet is better than none because neither will serve you well when your time comes. And if you live long enough it Will come. Light weight, shock absorption internals, and solid fit are the main saving graces of any helmet.

BTW my original interest in different helmets effecting perception of speed still stands.

Last edited by Old Syko; 11-03-2012 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 06:40 AM   #12
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I disagree on several point.

1. Statistics about helmets are relevant. But if you assume worst case for example like plowing head on into an oncoming semi at 60 mph then, yeah, a helmet isn't going to save you...but that's part of why the statistic number is what it is. If a helmet was a guarantee then it would be 100%, not ~30%.

2. Helmet comfort. In this regard comfort is a relative term. If your helmet isn't comfortable, comfortable as helmets go, you've probably got the wrong one. You don't have to be tortured by the fit of a helmet. Some are definitely more comfortable than others between brand and head shape and level in the product line. Helmet comfort is paramount if you're going to have a helmet because if it's so bad you get a headache or whatever, and you don't wear it because of that, what's the point?

3. Wive's tale that any helmet is better than none. Again, if we're assuming the ultimate worst case scenario then I agree. The other 99% of the time you are better off with any helmet (except those cosmetic ones you mentioned to skirt the law) than none. Lest I be flamed, I do believe it is (or should be) your choice whether or not to wear a helmet. The facts, however, are indisputable that wearing a helmet considerably reduces your risk of death in an accident.

I only have full face helmets so my saying speed changes based on style I can't opine. On my cruiser I don't believe I drive faster with the helmet on, but I know I do on my crotch rocket because without the FF helmet my eyes start tearing up/watering before I can get going too fast, and wearing just goggles looks plain weird on a crotch rocket.

Last edited by whoaru99; 11-03-2012 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:28 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Syko View Post
Although this thread was started with a different premise in mind, I knew it would drift into another Have To Wear A Helmet thread chock full of useless statistics and false information. Statistics are numbers only and worth nothing when your personal case happens to fall outside the norm. Forget statistics since within the realm of reality they serve no purpose.
This is what I stated and there is absolutely nothing untrue or even disputable about it. If your case falls outside that which is covered by accepted data, there are no viable stats. Reality of any situation is individual and therefore no stat will be totally accurate to a given situation.

You can say that comfort is relative but in reality to get the best performance as far as injury prevention goes comfort plays little part. A hat in order to fit comfortably fits much too loosely to afford proper protection yet that comfort is what most opt for. In that regard they acquire a false sense of security and nullify most accepted statistics. Manufacturers play to the masses in order to propagate business but people who use their products professionally seldom use off the shelf products offered to the general public who supports them financially. My statement that an improperly fit hat can and will do more harm than good stands. Been there done that. Learned from my mistakes. Many don't get that opportunity and become statistics.

I've heard it said that 47% of all statistics are inaccurate and as much as 52% are merely made up to support an agenda. Throw in a + or - variable of 2% and what does that leave you with.

Fact of the matter is, if you want safety in your life, don't ride, drive, fly, chase women, or any of the other things that make life worth living. After all, If you're not living on the edge you're just taking up too much space.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Syko View Post
Fact of the matter is, if you want safety in your life, don't ride, drive, fly, chase women, or any of the other things that make life worth living. After all, If you're not living on the edge you're just taking up too much space.
Cop out on the discussion.

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I've heard it said that 47% of all statistics are inaccurate and as much as 52% are merely made up to support an agenda. Throw in a + or - variable of 2% and what does that leave you with.
And I've heard it said that people make up all kinds of stuff to dismiss things that don't support their agenda.

Fact is, statistics generally aren't intended to represent individual circumstances (as we seem to agree) but that doesn't nullify the statistical theory nor the results that say you're better off wearing a helmet than not.

Last edited by whoaru99; 11-03-2012 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:30 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post
Cop out on the discussion.



And I've heard it said that people make up all kinds of stuff to dismiss things that don't support their agenda.

Fact is, statistics generally aren't intended to represent individual circumstances (as we seem to agree) but that doesn't nullify the statistical theory nor the results that say you're better off wearing a properly fitted helmet than not.
With the noted change in your statement above, yes I agree.

Yep, if ya can't convince them with facts baffle them with BS. That's where statistics come in. Our latest presidential campaigns come to mind. Each side uses the same stats to support opposite positions. This is the flaw in statistical analysis. It's all subject to interpretation and perception.
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Old 11-03-2012, 07:45 PM   #16
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All data/statistics will never be 100% accurate..... Why? Human involvement.....
Human error WILL always be apart of the equation to every piece of data/statistics.

What it all boils down to is "Personal choice/preference and laws" as to whether you wear none, some or all of the safety gear that is needed for you to ride in a manner and conditions you're accustom too.

Down here in Oz, the minimum law is an approved helmet. But they also recommend wearing protective clothing.

I myself have 2 helmets. 1 full face and 1 open face. This is my choice and no-one else's.

I've read in the Gixxer forum where some ppl don't wear helmets with the mind set of "I like speed and a helmet won't save my life" mentality.....
Another part of the discussion was on protective clothing where a rider had only ever worn street clothing until he came off his ride with massive amount of gravel rash. Now he wears protective clothing ALL the time.
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:00 PM   #17
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After over 40 years and nine bikes, within the last few months I've just started wearing Kevlar lined Draggin' Jeans, over the ankle Bates boots and gloves (bought last week at the bike show). Seeing both my cousin and a close friend in the hospital opened my eyes. Riding is dangerous enough and I was hit by a car at 19 and walked away, and broke a leg at 40. Layed off for eight years and came back but am much more safety cautious and wear protective gear now. Am ordering a Draggin' Jeans Lined Jacket this week.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:05 PM   #18
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Up here in Canada it is law to wear a minimum of a DOT approved helmut. Now the question of whether or not it should be law is another discussion, but I for one will be wearing a helmut. I love my life, wife, family and friends, and want to do all I can to stay around as long as I can.
I wear a leather jacket and good gloves, but don't have chaps or the like as yet, but they are on the shopping list.
I have been away from biking for 30 years and just getting back into it the past 3 months, and love to ride. I will do everything in my power to maintain my ability to ride, and that includes using my safety gear.
In my previous riding experiences, I did have the unpleasant event of sliding down the pavement and wearing the facemask rivets off a helmut. No way to know for sure, but if it were not for that helmut I might not be typing this.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
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All data/statistics will never be 100% accurate..... .
Nobody ever said it/they would be but, again, that doesn't change the fact of what the statistics say about wearing helmets. - improving your odds of survival by 30% (wear), or not (don't wear).

There is a LOT of accident data behind those statistics and that amount of data improves the confidence level. It's not like they've based on one or two cases to draw a conclusion.

If anyone chooses to not wear a helmet (where that choice is yours) I fully support your choice, but it doesn't work to dismiss the statistics with flawed arguments.

Last edited by whoaru99; 11-04-2012 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:56 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Syko View Post
.... I catch myself going way to fast. It seems I got so used to the sound and feel that now the full face has changed my perception of things..........I know I'm strange, but surely I'm not totally alone here am I?
I am not doing the wear or not thing so, Talking about changing your helmit. This past summer I had two bikes, one a Vulcan and the other a 1200 Bandit. I had been riding for over 30 years, have all kinds of linds, mostly ride with the 1/2 on, and glasses. When I ride for fun (back roads etc) the 1/2 is on, when I ride the parkways, or what I call testing my abilitiy (this is not crazy shit but riding hard, low speed parking lot u turns at 8/10 ft wide, highspeed turns, quick stops, etc.) I use the full face, with my glasses and drop down shield. On the Vulcan, I would start out w/ the 1/2 ride then change to the full, and then hit the parkway. The full helmit wil let the wind move over my head, stops things from hitting my face and stops some sounds, things I do not want to deal with or have the time too when riding faster, it keeps me more in-turn to what is going on around me, what me and the bike are doing and what we are going to do next. As soon as I go back to my lay-back riding, I pull over and on goes the 1/2.............So with the Bandit, I have always put the full on from the start, its hard to keep that bike under 80 mph, no time to deal with bugs/wind hitting the face, sounds, etc., its hard riding time! I now just have a Nomad, so I wear the 1/2 and keep the full in the bag just in-case I need it....being older I know what you are talking about in dif helmits, mostly use the full in cold weather just to keep warmer, and in summer still keep the full in the bag just so I feel younger lol.
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