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Valve Clearance Question

8K views 48 replies 12 participants last post by  ErnieC 
#1 ·
I pulled the valve covers and moved the piston to TF. I tried to check the valve clearance and couldn't even get the thinnest feeler gauge leaf between the shim and the rocker arm. The bike has almost 15k miles on it. Is that normal?
 
#3 ·
I believe so. I'm checking the front cylinder when TF is aligned. I haven't checked the rear with TR aligned yet...

I even tried to get the thinnest feeler gauge between the rocker arm and the shim on the exhaust side without any luck....I must be doing something wrong....back to the manual....
 
#5 ·
I spun it so the TF is aligned with the mark and the cut on the gear is aligned with the top of the cylinder head. Still no love. I just bought a shim kit so I can swap them out. I'm pretty sure I followed the manual correctly...it's just that this is my first time and I don't want to mess anything up. What are the consequences of the valve clearance being off a little?
 
#6 ·
Also, the kit I bought goes from thickness of 1.20 to 3.50, but the shims I pulled from the bike are 4.?0. I can't read the middle number. Shouldn't they be in the same range as the kit?
 
#7 ·
Nevermind, that can't be the thickness number, since the shim is thinner than the 3.50. I'll play with the shims until I get the clearance I need.
 
#9 ·
Another method is to watch your cam lobe, the high spot on the cam. When it is facing up, your valve will be open, turn motor till it is completely down, your valve should be completely closed at this point and you can adjust it there.
 
#10 ·
Thanks guys. I guess the clearance really was shot. I adjusted the two intake valves on the front, then did the exhaust. Three of the 4 shims needed to be adjusted. Same with the back cylinder.

AND! as a grand finale, I hooked everything back up and tried to start the bike. Apparently, I forgot to reconnect the line with the lock that connects on the left side of the tank.......gotta let the garage air out overnight now....

Damn, computers are so much easier to mess with. HAHA!

Again, thanks for the tips, guys!
 
#11 ·
One thing I noticed is now I hear the valves ticking. I know I heard them when I first bought the bike, but I never noticed they went away until I swapped the shims and the ticking returned. I'm assuming that's a good thing, right?
 
#12 ·
No, I don't think you should hear anything, not with the very small clearances that these valves run. I think you're going to have to start over again. There is really only one, or possibly two shims that's going to be right for each valve, not a selection of shims. That is because the entire allowable gap range is the difference from one shim to the next.
I'm going to talk in inches here, and round the numbers off to an understandable set of figures.
The intake valve clearance has to be between 4 and 6 thousandths of an inch, or .004" to .006".
The exhaust valves run at between 8 and 10 thousandths (.008" to .010").

The shims are roughly 2 thousandths (.002") from one to the next.
Lets say you measured the clearance on an exhaust valve, and got a reading of 11 thousandths (.011"). You could remove that shim, determine its thickness, and select the next thicker shim. After installing that shim, your clearance should measure 9 thousandths, or .009". This is right between the allowable .008" to .010".
You can't go one more size thicker because then your clearance would only be .007", too tight for this valve.
The best advice is probably if you're close to, or at the upper limit, to leave that valve alone. Changing the shim can put you really close to too tight.
If your clearance is tight, at or below the lower limit, then install the next thinner shim and recheck.

As far as lining up timing marks, lets try something less confusing. With the valve cover removed and the timing inspection plate and the spark plugs removed, turn the engine counter-clockwise, and watch the valves actuate. If you're doing the front cylinder, watch as the exhaust valves (front valves) are pushed open, then close again as the intake valves start to open. Keep turning the engine over until the intake valves close, and then continue to turn the engine another 180 degrees. This will put that piston at the top of its compression stroke, or slightly past, and both the intake and exhaust valves can be adjusted at this point.
Repeat for the rear cylinder keeping in mind that those exhaust valves are at the rear of the cylinder head this time.
 
#16 ·
BTW, I highly recommend stepped feeler gages like the one in this link for doing this work.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Proto-22-Blade-Step-Cut-Feeler-Gauge-Sets/13083581
As an old engine builder I will second this suggestion but with a bit of a twist. Purchase extra long individual stepped gauges. Mine are 8 inches long and 1/4 inch wide. It allows you a much more precise feel and they are just easier to handle. Also as an old engine builder, I can always hear the valve lash but that is from way too much experience. When I don't hear it or it becomes too loud is when I get concerned. You may develop this affliction also after enough time.:)
 
#19 ·
The shims I picked up (Hot Cams) have the size etched into the top of each shim. The stock ones I pulled from the bike had an inked number, but the middle was worn off so all I could make out was that it started with a 4 and ended with a 0, but that would be too thick for the shim size, so I don't know what that number was.

I'm not sure if all shims are marked for sizes, but I believe they are.
 
#23 ·
Yep, a hundred years ago or so I had an old rain coat and a welding hood with a clear lens that hung in the corner just for that. Pacomutt and I aren't makin this up either. :eek: At some point I discovered degree wheels and dial indicators and the world got much easier and cleaner. Good ole days? I guess that's debatable. ;)

Infidel, I assume the gauges you're referring to that say they are dual reading mean simply that they are marked in both metric and sae dimensions and not actually ground to 2 different thicknesses as the ones Pacomutt and I are referring. Double ground and extra long are the way to go but if all you have are single ground in a set, at least disassemble the set and use only a single feeler at a time.

Phil, yes all the shims should be marked but it really doesn't matter since the markings may be obscured for one reason or another or just plain marked wrong. Shame we don't live in a perfect world ain't it?
 
#24 ·
And just to make it more fun, valve lash adjusters had slots that took a large plain screwdriver, not something that had a chance of staying in place like maybe a Phillips head! So now you have a plain, flat-blade screwdriver in a jumping valve adjuster, covered in an oil bath.
Another fun thing was when you'd pull a valve cover and the entire valve area would be a solid mass of clay-like sludge. :eek:
 
#25 ·
The lack of such silliness and the unbelievable performance for the day is what steered me to the S2, H1, and H2 Kawasaki's of the day. Yes, there was a part of all that that really was the good ole days. Guess what? No valves. I guess we gained a bit in some areas and lost in others.:confused:
 
#27 ·
The S and H series bikes being 2strokers of course didn't have valves so to make them run you had to pull the jugs and raise the ports and cut the pistons by whatever means you chose, preferably with a mill but they were even done with a file. Feeler gauges and the like were too simple. The thing was, the 350 would easily smoke any 750 4stroke on the market and the H2 750 was properly called a rocket since keeping the front end down was impossible without trailing bars. Yes you were right. Those were the good ole days.
 
#28 ·
I never modded my H1s. They had far more than enough power to kill you real quick in their stock form. I rode them fast on the streets, but only raced in the dirt. The fuel economy sucked, but at under 30 cents a gallon, who cared?:)
 
#29 · (Edited)
So...that ticking was driving me crazy so I tore into the top end of the engine again to re-re-re-re-re-recheck the valve clearance. Apparently, the feeler gauges I bought were the problem. The .13mm leaf was thicker than the .15mm leaf, for whatever reason. At first, I thought two leaves were stuck together, but I guess the .13mm got mismarked.

Anyway, I disasembled the set like Old Syko suggested and just used the .18mm, 15mm, and 10mm to check the intakes. The exhaust shims were good, but I had to correct each one of the intakes.

What I did was basically make sure the 18mm wouldn't go through and the 15 would, since I couldn't use the 13mm. One or two wouldn't let the 15mm pass through, but the 10mm did on the intake, so I counted those as good.

After I finish unf*cking my mistake, I took the bike out and got it nice and hot, then let it idle. Sounds like you were right all along, Pacomutt...I couldn't hear the ticking that loud anymore. Now, it was a faint, soft tick that was barely audible of the sound of the engine at an idle. Sounds a lot closer to what I would have expected. Maybe people next to me will stop staring now. hahaha!

Anyways, thanks to both of you for the advice. I think I have it done right this time. :D
 
#30 ·
Glad you got it right finally!:) You had to have learned a lot by now about checking valve clearances.
BTW, Happy Veterans Day, and thanks for your service! Semper fi from an old VN vet!
 
#31 ·
And thank you for yours! Happy Veteran's Day!

The first time I tore into the engine, it took me almost a day to screw everything up and put the bike back together. I finished that off with forgetting to hook the fuel line back up on the left side and tried to start the bike. End result: I dumped fuel all over the bike and the garage.

The second time I screwed everything up, it took me about half a day to take the top end apart and put everything back together.

By this last time, I had the bike apart, checked, corrected, and together again in a little over an hour. AND...it seems to be done right. And the best part...no fuel all over the bike and the garage.

I'm just glad none of my biker family lives close, or I'm sure I would have called them over for help at some point and dumped fuel all over the bike in front of them. Good thing I wasn't smoking the cigar I was contemplating about a half hour before that...

I have definitely learned a lot, especially about putting things back together! :D
 
#34 ·
Phil: Inspect them, clean them with Isopryl Alcohol, clean the mating surfaces and you should be good to go. Just be aware that when you remove the covers, the rear one comes out best if you go fowards, quarter turn then out on the left side of the bike. There is a small locator pin for the gasket - one each cylinder - doesn't come out easily but watch it - could just drop in the in the valve area or worse, down the camchain shaft......for shimming, use a swivel head magnet - auto store - looks like long pen with an adjustable tension magnet...priceless!!

Dave
 
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