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Helmet vs how fast you ride.

8K views 56 replies 20 participants last post by  Cheesefood 
#1 ·
I've been wearing a 3/4 helmet since I started riding again a couple months or so back. Well the weather has changed so I went to the winter hat which is a Bell full face. Now I catch myself going way to fast. It seems I got so used to the sound and feel that now the full face has changed my perception of things. If I open the shield I slow right down. I've always depended on the seat of my pants whether riding, driving, flying, or anything else I do but I'm having trouble adjusting to the difference in sound and air movement in this case. Yep I know I'm strange, but surely I'm not totally alone here am I?
 
#2 ·
You're not alone.

I live in Florida, so I have the option not to wear a helmet. They're hot, uncomfortable things and the extra weight and wind resistance tends to irritate my bulging discs in my neck.

Plus, they give me this 'Invincible' feeling I don't really like.
 
#4 ·
Here in Indiana like Florida there are no communist mandated helmet laws either but it is a rule of my own. When I rode many years ago a lot of that time was on a race track and old habits are hard to break. Being a fan of Bell is another of those holdovers.:rolleyes: I do understand the disc problems. Mine too are in my stupid neck ;) but I'll deal with it since history has me convinced it is the right thing to do, and more than once.

The strange thing is, I don't remember changing helmets changing the feel of things so much, but then again I didn't exactly get younger.:) The good part of getting older is you have something you can easily blame your flaws on.,:cool:


BTW that invincible feeling has subsided somewhat but probably not near enough.:eek: I know you understand also. :D
 
#3 ·
They're definitely not comfortable, especially when it's warm. A lot of people are just scared of not wearing a full-face helmet anytime they're touching the motorcycle.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Hmm, interesting observation!

I love mine when it's cold out. That along with a thin black scarf I wear (and a chin curtain in the full face helmet) and I'm good way down into the low temps and comfortable. But I guess I've never noticed my speed changing. I tend to adjust my speed on the seat of my pants as well but I guess I usually go buy the sound of the pipes, I pretty much have gotten used to what the pipes sound like at certain speeds.

I don't find my full face uncomfortable, though I know a lot of people do. I actually kinda like it. I must have the 'right shaped head' for it I guess. It's just really nice when it's cold out. I look at all of these other guys wrapping facemasks and scarves and goggles and all sorts of stuff underneath their half shell, and I just pop on a helmet!

And HRH, I'll agree with ya there. I've known a few people who, frankly, are afraid to ride a motorcycle but do it anyway. Riding a machine your afraid of with a helmet on is probably more dangerous than riding a machine your comfortable with without it. People die with helmets on too. Although a healthy amount of fear is probably good. I don't run red lights or pull out without looking, and I suppose you could say it's because I'm afraid of getting clobbered by a car! lol.

I always wear a helmet, because, I think it's the right thing for me to do. Doesn't bother me when others don't though, that's them, I'm me. Crashes do happen and sometimes they happen to good riders! But, again, I think there's a difference between being sensible and accepting and managing risk, and just being silly. Although I guess if I'm gonna be alright with people not wearing a helmet, I shouldn't have anything to say about people wearing big ol' leather track suits, that would be hypocritical otherwise. BUT, I DO have something to say about the people who decide that they want to be 'safe' on their motorcycle by wearing a full face and gear, then ride like a lunatic!
 
#7 ·
People die with helmets on too.
Yup, that's right, but last figures I saw said that you're ~30% less likely to die and ~67% less likely to have a disabling brain injury if you wear a helmet.

Those are significant numbers. I should ALWAYS wear one but I don't (always). Why not? Because like many others it's probably because I foolishly think "I'll never happen to me." or "It's just a short ride.".
 
#6 ·
I wish I had been wearing a full face helmet the first time I was bucked off a bike. I would likely still have my own front tooth! My bud wishes he had been wearing a full face instead of the 3/4 after we zipped through a swarm of bees - with several of them having a good ol' time inside his helmet on his head until he managed to stop, dump the bike and rip the helmet off. Lost count of the number of hard bugs and road debris that has bounced off my full face. From the looks of the front of my son-in-laws full face helmet after he performed a unannounced high-side maneuver, he would not have much of a face right now if not for the helmet. The few times I rode without a helmet in KY, I quickly found it uncomfortable.That said, to each their own. My big lesson for purchasing a full face helmet is to not skimp - buy quality! A lot of the common complaints disappear when you do. Just my two cents.
 
#9 ·
My big lesson for purchasing a full face helmet is to not skimp - buy quality! A lot of the common complaints disappear when you do. Just my two cents.
I fully agree. There is so much difference in the fit and comfort of helmets based on brand and your head shape it's almost unbelievable until you try on many different brands and price ranges.
 
#8 ·
When we first met, my wife was putting herself through nursing school while working as an EMT with EMS. She had seen enough motorcycle head injuries that she won't ride without one. We have the option here in SC too. However, I've always worn one since 1966 and changed to full face in 1990. Diagrams and statistics show that the frontal face/jaw area take the most damage. My cousin just had the halo removed from his head after months of being screwed into it. Slow speed wreck without a helmet. I have a friend of 40 years slowly dying after over a year of strokes and having the skin pulled over the huge hole in his skull. Brain swelling and darinage will not allow the hole to be covered. No helmet, left the road and hit a tree. As a hospice chaplain I could give other examples of sitting with patients dying of head injuries because they were too cool or it was too hot to wear a helmet. It's your right to not wear one but I love my life, wife, children, grandchildren and friends too much to think of them suffering because I decided to ride without a helmet.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Although this thread was started with a different premise in mind, I knew it would drift into another Have To Wear A Helmet thread chock full of useless statistics and false information. Statistics are numbers only and worth nothing when your personal case happens to fall outside the norm. Forget statistics since within the realm of reality they serve no purpose.

As far as the fit of a helmet goes, if it is comfortable you have the wrong one. Yes, there is a difference in quality but it isn't what most people think and it isn't always determined by price. A helmet that doesn't fit VERY tight may well do as much harm as good and this goes for both 3/4 and full. Skull caps are merely a work around to thwart the asinine helmet laws so I will not even consider them in any conversation about protection. As someone who has actually taken advantage of the equipment by putting it to use for it's intended purpose I assure you numbers and comfort neither serve any purpose in the choice of which helmet to use.

As a prime example of what not to use, I looked at helmets the other day that had a rubberized coating on the outside. As someone who has made the slide for life trip both due to wrecks and intentionally to avoid dying, I assure you the last thing you want is for that helmet to get traction at a different rate than the rest of you no matter if the thing fits correctly or not.

Long story short, don't get caught up in consumer hype and cosmetics and don't buy into the old wives tales that any helmet is better than none because neither will serve you well when your time comes. And if you live long enough it Will come. Light weight, shock absorption internals, and solid fit are the main saving graces of any helmet.

BTW my original interest in different helmets effecting perception of speed still stands.
 
#13 ·
Although this thread was started with a different premise in mind, I knew it would drift into another Have To Wear A Helmet thread chock full of useless statistics and false information. Statistics are numbers only and worth nothing when your personal case happens to fall outside the norm. Forget statistics since within the realm of reality they serve no purpose.
This is what I stated and there is absolutely nothing untrue or even disputable about it. If your case falls outside that which is covered by accepted data, there are no viable stats. Reality of any situation is individual and therefore no stat will be totally accurate to a given situation.

You can say that comfort is relative but in reality to get the best performance as far as injury prevention goes comfort plays little part. A hat in order to fit comfortably fits much too loosely to afford proper protection yet that comfort is what most opt for. In that regard they acquire a false sense of security and nullify most accepted statistics. Manufacturers play to the masses in order to propagate business but people who use their products professionally seldom use off the shelf products offered to the general public who supports them financially. My statement that an improperly fit hat can and will do more harm than good stands. Been there done that. Learned from my mistakes. Many don't get that opportunity and become statistics.

I've heard it said that 47% of all statistics are inaccurate and as much as 52% are merely made up to support an agenda. Throw in a + or - variable of 2% and what does that leave you with. :D:D:D

Fact of the matter is, if you want safety in your life, don't ride, drive, fly, chase women, or any of the other things that make life worth living. After all, If you're not living on the edge you're just taking up too much space.;)
 
#12 · (Edited)
I disagree on several point.

1. Statistics about helmets are relevant. But if you assume worst case for example like plowing head on into an oncoming semi at 60 mph then, yeah, a helmet isn't going to save you...but that's part of why the statistic number is what it is. If a helmet was a guarantee then it would be 100%, not ~30%.

2. Helmet comfort. In this regard comfort is a relative term. If your helmet isn't comfortable, comfortable as helmets go, you've probably got the wrong one. You don't have to be tortured by the fit of a helmet. Some are definitely more comfortable than others between brand and head shape and level in the product line. Helmet comfort is paramount if you're going to have a helmet because if it's so bad you get a headache or whatever, and you don't wear it because of that, what's the point?

3. Wive's tale that any helmet is better than none. Again, if we're assuming the ultimate worst case scenario then I agree. The other 99% of the time you are better off with any helmet (except those cosmetic ones you mentioned to skirt the law) than none. Lest I be flamed, I do believe it is (or should be) your choice whether or not to wear a helmet. The facts, however, are indisputable that wearing a helmet considerably reduces your risk of death in an accident.

I only have full face helmets so my saying speed changes based on style I can't opine. On my cruiser I don't believe I drive faster with the helmet on, but I know I do on my crotch rocket because without the FF helmet my eyes start tearing up/watering before I can get going too fast, and wearing just goggles looks plain weird on a crotch rocket.
 
#16 ·
All data/statistics will never be 100% accurate..... Why? Human involvement.....
Human error WILL always be apart of the equation to every piece of data/statistics.

What it all boils down to is "Personal choice/preference and laws" as to whether you wear none, some or all of the safety gear that is needed for you to ride in a manner and conditions you're accustom too.

Down here in Oz, the minimum law is an approved helmet. But they also recommend wearing protective clothing.

I myself have 2 helmets. 1 full face and 1 open face. This is my choice and no-one else's.

I've read in the Gixxer forum where some ppl don't wear helmets with the mind set of "I like speed and a helmet won't save my life" mentality.....
Another part of the discussion was on protective clothing where a rider had only ever worn street clothing until he came off his ride with massive amount of gravel rash. Now he wears protective clothing ALL the time.
 
#19 · (Edited)
All data/statistics will never be 100% accurate..... .
Nobody ever said it/they would be but, again, that doesn't change the fact of what the statistics say about wearing helmets. - improving your odds of survival by 30% (wear), or not (don't wear).

There is a LOT of accident data behind those statistics and that amount of data improves the confidence level. It's not like they've based on one or two cases to draw a conclusion.

If anyone chooses to not wear a helmet (where that choice is yours) I fully support your choice, but it doesn't work to dismiss the statistics with flawed arguments.
 
#17 ·
After over 40 years and nine bikes, within the last few months I've just started wearing Kevlar lined Draggin' Jeans, over the ankle Bates boots and gloves (bought last week at the bike show). Seeing both my cousin and a close friend in the hospital opened my eyes. Riding is dangerous enough and I was hit by a car at 19 and walked away, and broke a leg at 40. Layed off for eight years and came back but am much more safety cautious and wear protective gear now. Am ordering a Draggin' Jeans Lined Jacket this week.
 
#18 ·
Up here in Canada it is law to wear a minimum of a DOT approved helmut. Now the question of whether or not it should be law is another discussion, but I for one will be wearing a helmut. I love my life, wife, family and friends, and want to do all I can to stay around as long as I can.
I wear a leather jacket and good gloves, but don't have chaps or the like as yet, but they are on the shopping list.
I have been away from biking for 30 years and just getting back into it the past 3 months, and love to ride. I will do everything in my power to maintain my ability to ride, and that includes using my safety gear.
In my previous riding experiences, I did have the unpleasant event of sliding down the pavement and wearing the facemask rivets off a helmut. No way to know for sure, but if it were not for that helmut I might not be typing this.
 
#20 · (Edited by Moderator)
.... I catch myself going way to fast. It seems I got so used to the sound and feel that now the full face has changed my perception of things..........I know I'm strange, but surely I'm not totally alone here am I?
I am not doing the wear or not thing so, Talking about changing your helmit. This past summer I had two bikes, one a Vulcan and the other a 1200 Bandit. I had been riding for over 30 years, have all kinds of linds, mostly ride with the 1/2 on, and glasses. When I ride for fun (back roads etc) the 1/2 is on, when I ride the parkways, or what I call testing my abilitiy (this is not crazy but riding hard, low speed parking lot u turns at 8/10 ft wide, highspeed turns, quick stops, etc.) I use the full face, with my glasses and drop down shield. On the Vulcan, I would start out w/ the 1/2 ride then change to the full, and then hit the parkway. The full helmit wil let the wind move over my head, stops things from hitting my face and stops some sounds, things I do not want to deal with or have the time too when riding faster, it keeps me more in-turn to what is going on around me, what me and the bike are doing and what we are going to do next. As soon as I go back to my lay-back riding, I pull over and on goes the 1/2.............So with the Bandit, I have always put the full on from the start, its hard to keep that bike under 80 mph, no time to deal with bugs/wind hitting the face, sounds, etc., its hard riding time! I now just have a Nomad, so I wear the 1/2 and keep the full in the bag just in-case I need it....being older I know what you are talking about in dif helmits, mostly use the full in cold weather just to keep warmer, and in summer still keep the full in the bag just so I feel younger lol.
 
#21 ·
MJ we seem to be pretty much in agreement since we match our percieved needs to what we expect to do. With my open face I still use a flip down shield and my Oakley Mframe glasses. Don't give a fat rat's backside about fashion I just want some coverage for when bad things happen. I just found it strange with the full hat that blocks more sound and practically all the wind I catch myself hauling. By opening the face shield (which defeats the purpose in cold weather) I seem to ride the same as with the open face since the sound and feel are closer to the same.

Now because my full face is properly fit I can't wear my Oakleys with it and I hate tinted shields. Seems age brings along it's own set of issues.:D
 
#23 ·
I agree, I have on my 1/2 helmet a flip down shield (holds on with 3 push tabs) and can wear my glasses.......with the full face I have to still wear my glasses to see and to do this (and still have it fit properly) I had to adjust the padding inside the helmet, removing some to fit the frame of the glasses. I have to put on the helmet, and put on my glasses to fit between my head and the helmet, if its just right...all is good, if not, well re-do til right, lol. I do not like tinted shields has my glasses are tinted and that is all I need, plus the reflection back into my eyes is something I can live without.

I was just thinking if there was a Helmet where it was custom fit just for you and offered all the protection, light weight, felt like it was not even on, had built-in glasses (to see better), adjusted for glair, cut thru the wind with no buffering,… if there was that helmet, just how fast (could I think) I could ride? ....In the end I would not wear that helmet much, like the old feeling of riding, wind in your face, the sounds, etc..I just go slower so its not too much for me...and if it is, I have the opt of pulling out the full face..LOL.
 
#22 ·
Reminds me about an old instructor's guidance on determining the value of a helmet. "Put a helmet on, then take a hammer and hit yourself in the head as hard as you can. Now take the helmet off and repeat ..."
To the original question, I'll ride around the yard without a helmet, and that is about it. I suppose I'm rephrasing the question to "at what speed are you uncomfortable banging your head into solid objects?" Seeing how my ol' lady can smack me with a skillet harder than I want to get hit, first-gear maneuvers in the yard or driveway is about my limit. So now the original question thread is back on track! :D
 
#24 ·
I used to ride with a 1/2 helmet all the time. But that was when I was concerned about nothing but looks. I wear a full face now. I do not have a windshield on my bike and like the full face for the protection from wind/bug/... . But I actually pulled out my old skid lid about a month ago or so and took a short ride with it and sun glasses and found my self slowing down because I found it irritating to the eyes and ears. I guess I never knew any different until I tried it and now I would not have it any other way but full face.
 
#26 ·
Helmet and other safety stuff...

Over the long run, statistics make me opt for safety..

Here's some of what I learned in the motorcycle safety course:

20% plus of bike accidents result in injuries to jaw...Full face helmet for me please...

Over 50% of biking accidents only involve the bike....single vehicle..Easy on the curves...

The most prevalent cause of accidents involving two or more vehilces involves the left turn..(Usually the other guy, not the biker is at fault,but not always.) ..I very often opt to not turn left and just ride on until I can find a safe place to turn around and go back....time "wasted" doing this in the last four years: less than an hour, give or take...

Yet, I say, to each his own....I like safety...

Bob
 
#28 ·
Over 50% of biking accidents only involve the bike....single vehicle..Easy on the curves...
I drive (relatively) fast through the curves, my choice. But, yeah, if not comfortable doing that then don't do it.

If you're heading for the ditch push down that bar HARD and trust the tires.

The most prevalent cause of accidents involving two or more vehilces involves the left turn..(Usually the other guy, not the biker is at fault,but not always.) ..I very often opt to not turn left and just ride on until I can find a safe place to turn around and go back....time "wasted" doing this in the last four years: less than an hour, give or take...
Yeah, while not totally preventative, I generally get out of town as quickly as possible to get to the (relative) safety of county roads.
 
#27 ·
I never ride without my Bell Revolver. A helmet is mandatory in our chapter. Wind resistance is not a problem for me. My fairing w/shield tip is just below eye level so that all air is deflected over my head. I can understand what some say about wind resistance, if I raise off my seat then my neck muscles are put to work. Another reason for the full face, communication with others in a group makes for better sound.The weather here in North Florida is making a full face feel great. One thing I never do is flip it up over 40mph. I'm sure you know why.
Blue Knights fl.30
Ride with Pride
 
#32 ·
Having been properly taught, studied and used statistics, I know how useful they can be, when used properly. The problem is when folks that don't understand statistics try to use them, OR when dirtbags twist statistical results for some agenda. Example: What is the most dangerous acreage on the planet? Hospitals! My god, the fatality rate there is through the roof! According to statistics, the likelihood of you dieing increases dramatically if you go to a hospital. So whatever you do, regardless of what happens to you, stay away from hospitals!:D
 
#35 ·
OB I used this very argument at a staff meeting one morning because I got tired of being inundated with flawed misinterpreted figures from folks with their own agenda. Although I did it rather tongue in cheek they returned to the table the next morning with verifiable facts and a new outlook. Turned out the indisputable facts they were giving me the day before were in fact not so indisputable when the proper information was brought forth. We still came to basically the same conclusion but afterward they knew how and why the got there. :cool:

SWVA You got it brother. If the stats for the success of sex panther aren't good enough, nothing is. :D:D I'm starting to wonder about you.:eek:;)

Whoru99 you do understand, every time I make a comment here I just lean back with a big grin on my face:D and wonder what you'll come up with next don't ya? Ya did get the part about my wearing different helmets right? Doubt I would bother if I didn't think I needed one. All I needed was eyes and ears for that decision, not statistics. Good Lord! I just spent more for new leathers than I paid for my first car. :rolleyes:

BTW, numbers never lie. i.e. the hospital statistics mentioned above. It's the source
 
#33 ·
Speaking of Statistics, for those who like the movie Anchorman will appreciate this.

 
#38 ·
Phillip, the hyper hypo. "My mother's a little over protective"
 
#43 ·
I learned after two spills, surviving one by the grace of God, another with a broken leg, not to count the near misses, and having a friend and a relative in the hospital, that protective gear was for me. Believe me, I'm an independent person who has always marched to the beat of a different drum (except while in the USMC). But there's something about seeing someone laying in a hospital bed, with their wife sitting in those uncomfortable chairs, knowing that the insurance won't cover all the cost, not counting the recovery time at home and the lasting complications from the injuries, that opens the mind to the reality of it all. The word foolhardy comes to mind. And yes, I was foolhardy for 40 years with eight bikes.
 
#49 ·
Sweeping statements about statistics meaning nothing in the real world is funny. Those statistics were born in the real world. But of course statistics can be manipulated. Thats not in question- we all know that to be true.

But someone simply stating that they wear a helmet to diminish their odds of serious or fatal injury as cause for this kind of sudden fit of contrarian diatribe is ridiculous.

It is reminiscent of a kid i knew who loved to proclaim that wearing a seatbelt in a car isnt safe because he knew someone who might have survived a crash if they had been thrown from the car. Mostly he just wanted attention and to demonstrate via his outlandish claim that he was therefore "an independent thinker". Others recoiling only seemed to support his sense of how wisely independent he was.

More simply put- he was a troll long before there was an internet to satisfy his fancy. I always wondered if he ever graduated to flashing women in his old age. Its all a ploy lest those types admit that without shock, nobody really gives a rats... Excuse me *fat* rats behind about what they have to say because they really dont think critically enough to transcend contrarian statements and make judicious use of facts at hand rather than reach for spurious arguments to support unusual claims. Its as if the more ridiculous the idea- the more the idea takes on a pet life of its own.

The objective isnt knowledge, its a feeling of knowledge. Of having one up on the other guy... Hence they get a thrill at the subsequent reactions because deep down they know its really about feeling clever and convincing themselves they dont care what anybody thinks while busily engaged in using others reactions to fuel their own sense of self distinction.

Pretty silly but to each his own.


Sent from my iPad using Motorcycle
 
#52 ·
It is reminiscent of a kid i knew who loved to proclaim that wearing a seatbelt in a car isnt safe because he knew someone who might have survived a crash if they had been thrown from the car. Mostly he just wanted attention and to demonstrate via his outlandish claim that he was therefore "an independent thinker". Others recoiling only seemed to support his sense of how wisely independent he was.
I hear that all the time too. He's not wrong, technically, sort-of. People have died due to injuries caused by a seatbelt (though, I'd venture to say that any impact so great it could cause your seatbelt to kill you, would have been more than enough to kill you without it). People have also run off of bridges, been trapped in the water, and because of panic, unable to get their seatbelt off and drowned. HOWEVER, a whole lot more people have avoided death by wearing it. We know from numerous studies, some basic logic and understanding of what happens in an accident, AND many many statistical understandings, that you are more likely to survive with a seatbelt ON. Again, if you don't wanna wear it that's none of my business, but don't tell me you are doing it for SAFETY. That's just an excuse people use because they want to justify it!

Statistics can be manipulated, but I don't think any of these statistics are an out-and-out lie. Unemployment is an oft manipulated statistic because of how it's recorded. For example, after two years of being out of work, you are no longer unemployed. A person being laid off of a $50,000 a year factory job who then finds work for $12,000 a year part time, is no longer unemployed. Sometimes we can get a false sense of what's going on thanks to those statistics. That's why it's important to look at EXACTLY what is going on. What EXACTLY is being recorded.

People always throw out anecdotal stuff to somehow debunk years of studies. I met a guy once who claimed NOT wearing a helmet saved his life. He wrecked, and he slid into a lawn mower deck in a guys yard face first and broke his jaw in several places and knocked out most of his teeth. He figured that his bones 'breaking' lessened the impact, whereas if he had a helmet on, it would have snapped his neck from the impact. What he evidently wasn't aware of, is A) There really aren't recorded cases of neck injuries caused by a helmet. and B) That's how a helmet works! If he had a full face on, then the chin bar would flex with the rest of the helmet to dull the impact, and the internal liners would crush. If he had a 3/4 or half helmet, then, it would have been the same outcome!
 
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