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Engine Stopped blowing oil mist. Ya got me!!!

5K views 24 replies 9 participants last post by  ksblaster 
#1 ·
Some of you may recall that I had a thread going trying to figure out why my 1600CL engine would blow oil mist out the intake air cover on a high speed long endurance run. I would get home and find a black oily soot on the tool box side cover and oil droplets on the front of the left saddlebag. We discussed every possible cause we could think of and I finally came to the conclusion it was normal ring wear since I had a 15 PSI pressure difference in the front cylinder when doing a wet/dry compression test (12 PSI back).
Well, it stopped doing it. I have been on several high speed runs lately and not a drop of oil on the bags or sooty deposits on the side cover. Before anyone asks...no, the crankcase oil level was not overfilled and yes, there is oil in the engine.;)

I don't know, maybe it's a Christmas miracle. Merry xmas to me! :D
 
#2 ·
Well I don't believe I would go digging around to find out. If it's not over filled, it's not empty and oil is circulating then I would just be happy. :)
 
#3 ·
You got it, brother! I was sweating an engine tear down for awhile. Like they say...if it's not broke don't fix it!
 
#5 ·
Yup, I am confident it was my advice that helped you "fix" the problem that went away by itself. :p
..and I thank you sooooo much for whatever it was you said that made the problem go away!
 
#6 · (Edited by Moderator)
Before you dismiss my comment, I worked as mechanic from marine thru motorcycle to John Deer. I have a college degree in Ag Science and when my instructor showed me 6 set of piston rings in 6 stages of break-in I was amazed to learn that engines are often RUINED at dealer start-up. The 5 minute idle after set-up is where the cylinders are glazed and rings never seat. Believe it or not. Then he showed me his secret. AJAX scrubbing powder, my G_D I didn't believe my eyes when he poured a half a cup into the intake of a $120,000 dollar John Deer tractor engine. Too much puttin around during build-transport-display-testdrive. Yet Yamaha told me to mark their rings on a camchain replacement and reinstall in exact location and take a straw full of AJAX and blow into the intake while on the bike stand to reset the rings. I usually do that now instead of buying new rings.

I had a volkswagen diesel that wouldn't stop running after I ran it floor boarded for ten minutes up a hill. The problem was oil build up in the valve cover that got sucked down the intake valve stem powering the diesel engine without need for diesel fuel. I had to stop it in gear. It's called a runnaway. The culprit was a head gasket that had a too small of a drain back hole punched into it that restricted the oils return to the oil pan. I have a Polaris 325cc currently that does the oil build up in the cylinder head also if I drive the hell out of it. So I put a vent tube down under the engine to prevent oil in my air intake housing. Some day (doubtful) if I ever tear it down I will address the issue.

Also ring end gaps can some times rotate around to the same spot on the piston and allow pressure to get to the crankcase. I think that is why TOTAL SEAL rings came into being and if I remember right that is why I only used TOTAL SEAL on horizontaly opposed engines cause the weight of the uncut side would over time jiggle the end gaps to the top and cause blow-by.
 
#8 ·
Before you dismiss my comment, I worked as mechanic from marine thru motorcycle to John Deer. I have a college degree in Ag Science and when my instructor showed me 6 set of piston rings in 6 stages of break-in I was amazed to learn that engines are often RUINED at dealer start-up. The 5 minute idle after set-up is where the cylinders are glazed and rings never seat. Believe it or not. Then he showed me his secret. AJAX scrubbing powder, my G_D I didn't believe my eyes when he poured a half a cup into the intake of a $120,000 dollar John Deer tractor engine. Too much puttin around during build-transport-display-testdrive. Yet Yamaha told me to mark their rings on a camchain replacement and reinstall in exact location and take a straw full of AJAX and blow into the intake while on the bike stand to reset the rings. I usually do that now instead of buying new rings.
Is your penchant for using AJAX the reason your handle is Blaster? :D

I'll have to look into that.
 
#7 ·
Hey blaster - riddle me this. I am not an expert so a real question here. On "Twist the Throttle" every factory tour I remember and CERTAINLY the Kawasaki episode showed and said they do a factory test on each bike (though they only show sport bikes).

They run them on the dyno pretty hard and the results are paired with the serial number so each bike has a history ... bla bla bla.

If thecase for every bike, would that take care of the dealer start you described?
 
#9 · (Edited)
If thecase for every bike, would that take care of the dealer start you described?
I work for an OEM that uses lots of engines. I can assure you the engine has time on it before it gets to the dealer. If there is a problem with the engine it's not 5 minutes of idle time at the dealer that did it...and we absolutely do NOT authorize nor advocate intentionally "dusting" the engine to try to get the rings to seat.
 
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#14 · (Edited)
Do you think the dust goes to the crankshaft main journals? ... There is a seal between the air in the cylinder and the crankcase.
Yes, I do think it. In fact the oil analysis of a dusted engine will show high silica amongst other things.

Yes, I do agree there is a seal, of sorts, between the air and oil but it's far from a perfect seal. That the oil gets dirty and contaminated by combustion byproducts, including particulate soot, means stuff gets past the rings and into the oil. Not only does that happen by blow-by, it also happens by the scraping action of the rings as junk inside the cylinder sticks to the very thin film of lube on the cylinder walls, gets pulled to the lower portion of the cylinder, and washed into the pan by the splashing oil.
 
#16 ·
I don't work much with rebuilding engines aside from my own, personal things. My job focus is more about finding out why it broke in the first place. Root cause failure analysis type of stuff.

So yeah, suffice to say I've seen piston rings and other engine bits in ways most people have not, such as though SEM micro-analysis.

And, as far as more practical tests such as might be done in the field or at a dealership, yeah I've either done or seen done pretty much all of it.
 
#17 ·
This has been a darn interesting discussion and has brought up possibiltys I had never considered. In 40 years of mechanicing I had never heard of piston rings rotating in such a manner that all gaps could line up and cause a blowby situation by thats exactly what the symptoms of my engine indicate happened. I'm going to go with that. BTW...it's still not blowing oil mist out the intake like it did for several months. Whatever the cause, it's gone.
Thanks for a great thread.
 
#20 ·
Also ring end gaps can some times rotate around to the same spot on the piston and allow pressure to get to the crankcase. I think that is why TOTAL SEAL rings came into being and if I remember right that is why I only used TOTAL SEAL on horizontaly opposed engines cause the weight of the uncut side would over time jiggle the end gaps to the top and cause blow-by.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but I've just got to call


on that one
 
#22 ·
I have always heard people say that but I have never seen or nor been shown an engine that has. I have always assumed it was someone coming to that conclusion because they can't figure out the problem.
 
#24 ·
I am not saying that rings do not rotate, they do.
But what I am saying is that if they did line up, I just cannot see that causing enough blow-by to soak your saddle bag. And, there would be periods of time when they are not lined up, but close. Does this cause a more blow-by than normal? How close do they have to be in order to be a problem?
Just too many unanswered questions for me, but a good discussion anyways even if I have to take a personal cartoon shot...
 
#25 ·
I built KIT_CARS for people using volkswagen horizontally opposed engines, occassionaly mazda rotary's or flat four subaru's. I noticed ring movement in these engines when I disassembled the cylinder for overhaul. I believe this was due to the fact the flat-4's have a less serious secondary imbalance that causes it to rotate back and forth around a vertical axis twice per crankshaft revolution. The pistons move R.P.M. ? At 3,400rpm x 60 minutes equal 204,000 revolutions per hour. So it's like a cocktail shaker, double rebound. Like why a rifle scope can't be used on a spring powered pellet rifle, the cross hairs in the scope break out, rapid double rebound. Double rebound, works on the rings, shaking the heavier stuff to the bottom is all. Also you are correct, my guru, Gene Berg, sent out a tech letter advising all rebuilders to start using total seal rings for that and other reasons. Total Seal rings save you 5-6% lost compression, stops ring end gap binding/gaping and saves oil.

So I'm just saying,
 
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