Question about Ceramic Coating on Exhaust - Page 2 - Kawasaki Vulcan Forum : Vulcan Forums
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CCPcoatings.com View Post
Hey Doc:

To answer your first question, no this is NOT normal. Although Ceramic Coatings are not Kryptonite, they are very durable when applied PROPERLY. I repeat, PROPERLY. The fact that you can take your nail and scratch the coating off of the substrate indicates to me that the coating was NOT applied PROPERLY. In your case, if rocks are flying at your pipes at 55-75MPH you’re bound to get some marks, but it shouldn’t be flaking off anywhere else.


The two most likely causes for what you’re describing are:

1) Improper substrate cleaning / preparation
2) Improper material / cure cycle

We’ve been in the Performance Coating business offering both High Temp Ceramic Coatings and Powder Coatings for close to 15 years. Our area of specialty is Performance Motorsports, which could include anything from a 5hp mini bike up to the Worlds Fastest 10.5 twin turbo Shootout Car making 4000HP+. Based on your description, I’d be willing to bet that the prep is insufficient. In that “Black Ceramic Coating” has become pretty popular for various bikes over the last few years, pipe makers have taken some of this work in house. In order to get Ceramic Coating to stick to your pipes we would burn them in a furnace at about 650F-850F for about 5 hours. This destroys any mandrel oils, greases, etc. From there they are profiled / blasted with a specific media based on the type of Ceramic being used. At this point your parts are being treated as if they were being prepped for open heart surgery, CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN!!!!!. After profiling they are sprayed and baked accordingly.

Most pipe makers DON’T have the time, man-power or capability to prep the pipes properly. They’re in the pipe building business, not the coating business. In many cases they may wipe them down or try to scuff them with scotch brite but this usually doesn’t hold up very long. The other thing we see a lot of is, YOUR Ceramic Coated pipes were previously a set damaged or blemmed CHROME pipes. So now prepping chrome is even more critical than that of raw metal pipes so this doesn’t usualy end well either.

If the manufacturer or dealer will warrantly them, give it a shot. If not, we’d be happy to help you correct the problem. Below are a couple recent Vulcans pipes we’ve done as well as pipes from a few other bikes……We offer about 12 different colors of Ceramic Coating and most of those are rated at 2000F+ so there are no worries of over heating the pipes or coatings.

Hope this helps,

CCPcoatings.com















Thanks for the knowledge and info CCP.

@Doc ......... There's the lowdown. Hope that business can give you credit. If not then you always have CCP and Jet Hot to set you up right. Wish you success and let us know how it all works out and which setup you went with.

It ain't about where you live; it's about how you live. So, ride to live, Bruh.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks CCPcoatings and Comanche for the posts, this answers a bunch of my questions. I did call around to other places (Jet-Hot and a few local places too) and they all said pretty much the same thing. It might chip, but you should not be able to scrape it off. They all said it was either poorly cured/baked or the substrate was not prepped properly.

I contacted RoadBurner and spoke with Brandon in sales and Mike in Production. Mike told me they are going send me an RMA and they will re-process and re-coat the pipes all under warranty and on their dime. I'm willing to give them a shot at making this right as they have been very helpful during this whole process.

I made a quick video before I spoke to them showing the problem and expressing my disappointment at the coating.


Should take a week or 2 for the pipes to come back, so I'll update this post when I get them.

If this fails, then on to CCPcoatings or Jet-Hot - and see if I can get RB to pay for it!

Doc



Quote:
Originally Posted by CCPcoatings.com View Post
Hey Doc:

To answer your first question, no this is NOT normal. Although Ceramic Coatings are not Kryptonite, they are very durable when applied PROPERLY. I repeat, PROPERLY. The fact that you can take your nail and scratch the coating off of the substrate indicates to me that the coating was NOT applied PROPERLY. In your case, if rocks are flying at your pipes at 55-75MPH you’re bound to get some marks, but it shouldn’t be flaking off anywhere else.


The two most likely causes for what you’re describing are:

1) Improper substrate cleaning / preparation
2) Improper material / cure cycle

Heaven is where the cops are British, the mechanics are German, the cooks are italian, the lovers are French, and it's all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where they cops are German, the cooks are British, the mechanics are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it's all organized by the Italians.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc8427 View Post
Thanks CCPcoatings and Comanche for the posts, this answers a bunch of my questions. I did call around to other places (Jet-Hot and a few local places too) and they all said pretty much the same thing. It might chip, but you should not be able to scrape it off. They all said it was either poorly cured/baked or the substrate was not prepped properly.

I contacted RoadBurner and spoke with Brandon in sales and Mike in Production. Mike told me they are going send me an RMA and they will re-process and re-coat the pipes all under warranty and on their dime. I'm willing to give them a shot at making this right as they have been very helpful during this whole process.

I made a quick video before I spoke to them showing the problem and expressing my disappointment at the coating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWs_stCLKy8

Should take a week or 2 for the pipes to come back, so I'll update this post when I get them.

If this fails, then on to CCPcoatings or Jet-Hot - and see if I can get RB to pay for it!

Doc
You beat me to the punch. I was going to ask for pics, but a video is even better. It sounds like they are willing to stand behind their product so I guess we'll have to see if its a processing issue, material issue or a fluke....

Custom Concepts Performance
Coatings & Components

19330 Mt. Elliott
Detroit, MI 48234
313.369.2447
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by CCPcoatings.com View Post
You beat me to the punch. I was going to ask for pics, but a video is even better. It sounds like they are willing to stand behind their product so I guess we'll have to see if its a processing issue, material issue or a fluke....
@CCP...........You are a top notch company to help out like that. I'll be looking for you for future projects and rebuilds.

@Doc............Glad it worked out for the time being. Hope the pipes are good when they come back if not then you will most definitely deserve and likely get a full refund from RB. Keep us posted.

It ain't about where you live; it's about how you live. So, ride to live, Bruh.

Last edited by Comanche; 11-15-2012 at 12:08 AM.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-30-2012, 11:22 AM
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+1 to CCPs writeup! Thanks for saving me the time lol
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-30-2012, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Doc8427 View Post
.

I made a quick video before I spoke to them showing the problem and expressing my disappointment at the coating.



Doc
That's coming off easier than cheap paint!

2008 VN900 Vulcan Classic
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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-30-2012, 10:19 PM Thread Starter
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So here is the latest. I shipped the pipes back to Road Burner last week. They've had them since Monday. I got an email from them today saying they had prepped them and would be coating them Monday or Tuesday because the weather was very rainy and not the best for the curing process.

Don't really understand that part, I would think these would be cured in an oven or some such.

I should have them back in another week to 10 days. I'll make sure to report back here what happens.

Doc

Heaven is where the cops are British, the mechanics are German, the cooks are italian, the lovers are French, and it's all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where they cops are German, the cooks are British, the mechanics are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it's all organized by the Italians.
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-01-2012, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc8427 View Post
So here is the latest. I shipped the pipes back to Road Burner last week. They've had them since Monday. I got an email from them today saying they had prepped them and would be coating them Monday or Tuesday because the weather was very rainy and not the best for the curing process.

Don't really understand that part, I would think these would be cured in an oven or some such.

I should have them back in another week to 10 days. I'll make sure to report back here what happens.

Doc
The coating is designed to withstand heat but it doesn't mean it's durable. Powdercoating is somewhat durable but will burn off when the temperature is high enough. Hi temp paint, in a rattle can, will do the job nicely. You will never see the difference when you touch up a flat black "ceramic" finish.
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-01-2012, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc8427 View Post
So here is the latest. I shipped the pipes back to Road Burner last week. They've had them since Monday. I got an email from them today saying they had prepped them and would be coating them Monday or Tuesday because the weather was very rainy and not the best for the curing process.

Don't really understand that part, I would think these would be cured in an oven or some such.

I should have them back in another week to 10 days. I'll make sure to report back here what happens.

Doc
What they are referring to is "humidity". This can be very problematic during hot summer and rainy days..... We've learned the hard way that we can't spray certain types of Ceramics on really humid days. It ends up bubbling which means we have to start all over again....

Custom Concepts Performance
Coatings & Components

19330 Mt. Elliott
Detroit, MI 48234
313.369.2447
CCPcoatings.com
CCPerformance.com

info@ccperformance.com
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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 04:50 PM
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Logic

I often wonder about nit-pickers ( I used to be one ) because my dad was a museum curator, not. He would tinker-tinker on something then sell it. When I was about 12yo I spouted off to him (while he was driving his 1964 Oldsmobile 98, which he had just traded his perfectly good Oldsmobile super 88 for). I said "why don't you just buy a mercedes and you won't have to trade cars all of the time". He never answered me.

Leave the Vulcan alone, good G_D it friggin flies as is.
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