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Drive train noise clicking

9K views 31 replies 8 participants last post by  BurrowJ101 
#1 ·
I have been noticing a sound when coasting kind of whir with a clicking , the clicking or tap sound varies with wheel speed not engine speed and is not present under load (or at least I can't hear it).

I checked belt tension and removed drive pulley cover, some belt dust in there but not a ton. Belt looked OK.

Further research would indicated the issue may be slop in the drive pulley/spline or possibly a loose drive pulley.

Upon further inspection I notice that the drive belt is tacking to the inside flange of the rear drive pulley. From what I can gather reading forums if anything it should track to the outside. I also noticed that the rear wheel alignment marks are out slightly. I had the tires replaced about 8K miles ago, cost me $100. From now on I will do the work myself or at minimum double check what has been done. You pay so called professionals to do things right.:frown2:

I am hoping it is just a loose drive pulley and or belt tracking tension issue.

I have a 27mm wrench on order so I can remove the rear wheel and check the drive pulley for proper torque, when it comes in I can document what I find if this subject is of interest to others.
 
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#2 ·
Front pulley must be removed and pulley/output shaft checked for wear, rust and rust dust. Clicking down by your left foot.
If there is ANY slop, then it must be repaired.
The pulley nut DOES NOT tighten the pulley onto the shaft, it just stops it from falling off, so tightening the nut is not a repair.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Drive train noise seems to be more common than I thought. Several posts indicating that the nut holding the pully on becomes lose. After extensive research I am concerned the loose pulley is a symptom and not the cause of the drive train noise. Tightening the pulleyis a only a very temporary fix if there is any movement between the pulley and shaft, wear on both will continue.

If the cause is fretting, wear of metal on metal then the solution will most likely be replacement of the drive pulley and ouput shaft. The pulley replacement not too bad at $200 or so but replacing the output shaft requires a lot of labor and is in the $1500 - $2000 range. Replacing the pulley only is a temp repair, if there is any wear on the shaft the slop will wear the new pulley and continue to wear the output shaft.

Not looking forward to resolving the drive train noise issue. I will remove the drive pulley on the weekend, hope i don't find any slop, not exactly sure what to do if there is some, don't really want to consider forking out $2200 With 15k on the clock.
 
#8 ·
The front pulley was very loose and there is definitely some slop between the drive shaft and drive pulley. Not really sure how to proceed. If I replace the pulley there will most likely be some slop due to wear on the shaft. Replacing the shaft is a major job i guess in the $2000 range which is not within my current budget.

I have a new washer and got some anti fretting grease assembly compound.

I may try doing some electroplating on the drive pulley, copper followed by zinc, try to build up the pulley with a kind of babbit like bearing surface the zinc will also help prevent corrosion.

Any other suggestions for getting rid of slop without having to replace the output drive shaft?
 

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#9 ·
Sorry, but to do anything else but replace shaft and pulley will be short lived and a waste of time/money.
Plating will not be hard enough.
Be sure and replace shaft bearing too.

Why not get a shop manual and do the repair yourself? Just be aware it is not a job for the faint of heart.

The only other thing would be to weld the pulley to the shaft and never hope that the cases have to be split for any reason. (not recommended)
 
#10 ·
I am not sure of what I am saying but here you go ;]

there was a recall on the vulcan 2000, you may want to look into this...

"Gents,

THE PULLEY ISSUE:
I've been given advanced notice that Mama Kaw has initiated an FDM
regarding abnormal wear of the engine pulley. They've evidently
determined the root cause of the failures to be a lubricant used during
assembly resulting in the engine pulley mounting nut not applying enough
clamping force to properly hold the pulley in place. This condition
creates abnormal wear on the splines of the pulley and/or pulley shaft."

link:

Delphi Forums Login*-*Welcome! Please log in.
 
#11 ·
I will try some loctite 660 which is designed for keyways and splines etc.. Will apply a release agent to the pline shaft first so the pulley can be removed without heating it.

Not really a permanent fix, but if I need to replace the pulley and tear the bike apart to replace the drive shaft I can try this for now and see how it works out.

WB
 
#12 ·
It would really help if the make and model was stated or at least fill out your profile. It sounds like your are dealing with a Vulcan v2k but its in the 900 section so ???
 
#16 · (Edited)
Ouch! Quotes from local dealers to replace output shaft and pulley range from $1700 - $3000+. Not in my budget at this time.

I will try a temporary (if it works well) longer repair using loctite 660. Tomorrow I should have the loctite 660 and primer in hand.

1) product recommends applying directly to splines and pulley.

2) to remove you need to heat to 250C. To get the pulley and shaft this hot would require serious heat which may cause further damage to other components.

3) I will try using a dry graphite application on the splines as a release agent. Hoping that using the loctite primer will work to coat the graphite coating and still allow the 660 to harden.

4) I will do a trial run on a pair of nuts and bolts, I have filed down the threads so there is slop in the fit. One set I will clean and prime and set will loctite 660. The other set I will clean then apply dry graphite as a release agent, let each dry completely, apply primer then apply loctite 660

5) compare the 2 samples. I am hoping the graphite release agent will allow me to separate the nut from the bolt but still set up nice and tight and remove the slop. I assume the bolt and nut without the release agent will be near impossible to separate without heating them.

6) if the test works I will apply to the bike, hoping to at least delay a very expensive repair.

I will let you know how the test goes.
 
#17 · (Edited)
First tube of loctite from, ebay consistency did not look right, checked production code it was 2009. New tube from Amazon was OK.

Loctite 660 is designed to fill voids in keyways and splines etc. to remove parts bonded will 660 require heating them to 250C roughly 500 F. I think it would take a lot of heat to output shaft and pulley to get them that hot.

I tried a test on nut and bolt using graphite as a release agent as follows after cleaning with brake cleaner.

1) apply a coat of dry graphite spray to the bolt threads. Let dry

2) apply three coats of loctite primer 7649 to the bolt graphite treated threads. Let it dry completely between coats.

3) apply loctite primer to nut threads. Let dry

4) apply loctite 660 to bolt threads and assemble. Let sit for 24 hours

5) result- loctite took up the slop in the threads and I was able to unscrew the nut without a lot of difficulty. Not sure if it worked too well, I expected it to be a lot more difficult to unscrew.

I repeated the above steps to the spline and pulley. Release agent on the spline only, put loctite 660 on the pulley so most of the squeeze out will come out the front, where I could wipe it off. Started to set up with in a few minutes and got rid of any slop between the pulley and output shaft.

Put new retainer washer on applied some loctite 271 to the retainer nut threads on the end of the shaft and installed the retainer nut and torque to spec. Loctite 271 also requires 250C heat to remove components but it is a small area right at the end of the shaft so I don't think that will be an issue.

Not sure of the root cause that made the pulley become lose in the first place or if wear happened that caused vibration that loosened the nut. The loctite 271 on the retainer nut should prevent the nut from coming lose due to vibration.

Kawi belt tension is much tighter than other mfgs. so I will set the tension at 6mm instead of 1.5-4mm.

I will ride it for a while and keep my ears open for any unwanted sound coming from the drive train. I need to do an oil change and valve clearance check in about 1000 miles and will remove the belt from the pulley and check it for slop etc.

My only concern at this point is if the graphite release agent I applied will prevent the loctite 660 from setting up properly. We will see soon enough.

WB
 
#24 ·
Mine failed at 22k but I was lucky to have the extended warranty which covered the repair. Not so much the shaft but an output shaft bearing failure. The case has to be split to replace that bearing. The dealer told me the repair would have cost me $1,700 without the warranty.
 
#26 ·
I experienced an off an on grinding noise. I loaded the bike on a trailer and took it to the dealer I purchased it from. They told me it was normal and 900's make those noises. Just ride it.

I put it away for the Winter and in the Spring I took it to a local Suzuki dealer where I knew the mechanic. He told me something is definitely wrong so I took it to another Kawasaki dealer with a better reputation. They found the problem immediately. Keep in mind that my bike was stock with no pulleys added. The dealer told me I was not alone with this problem but did not go into any numbers. They fixed it and since the case had to be split the valves were adjusted as a bonus since I was due.

The day after I got it back I took it on a 3,200 mile trip to break it in. Ran great and still does with 42k.
 
#27 ·
Update.

I have put about 600 miles since the loctite 660 repair. Lots of hard acceleration and engine breaking up and down mountain roads. So far the repair is holding up, everything is nice and tight no slop, no noise. The only way to check the drive pulley is to release the belt tension by removing the belt form the front pulley.

WB
 
#29 ·
Sorry to be late coming to the party but wanted to add my 2 cents. I have 2012 Vulcan Voyager 1700 (non ABS). At 37K miles, at 80mph, I had a catastrophic failure of the transmission output shaft and primary drive pulley. The gear teeth all stripped. Fortunately the bike popped out of gear. The failure was due to the over tight belts mandated by Kaw. The dealership had to completely tear down the engine and transmission to make sure nothing else was broke. 2 months later and $8K worth of repair (all under warranty!) and I got the bike back.

A year later at 54K miles, the rear bearing, pulley and bushings failed. All fixed under warranty.

Now a year later at 67K miles, I hear a clicking/thunking noise so I stopped driving it and hauled it home. After putting it on the lift, the noise wasn't the rear end like I thought. I thought it was bearings again as I put about 20-25K miles a year on the bike. Nope, the noise is coming from the transmission or clutch area. Took it to the dealership again and still haven't heard a definitive answer just that they think its a broken spring in the clutch area (still under warranty).

So moral of the story, if you hear any kind of clicking/thunking noise and it's coming from rear end, clutch or transmission areas, STOP! If you have to change a tire, have them set your belt tightness to 10mm and not the 4mm that Kaw does. I talked with the Kaw engineers at Daytona Bike Week and they said to change it asap to preserve function and reduce the wear on the drive pulley and output shaft. Apparently in my case the over tight belt caused the initial catastrophic failure, the rear bearings and, who knows, maybe the current issue.

I'm glad I bought the extended warranty!

JB
 
#30 ·
Unfortunately I did not buy the extended warranty. I now run the belt at 7-8mm with the wheel off the ground. More in line with other bike mfgs. I tend to ride a little hard and think that it combination with the tight belt may have been the cause.

Kawi should specify using anti fretting compound, loser belt tension and loctite on the nut holding the pulley in place IN MY OPINION.

WB
 
#31 · (Edited)
Checked it at about 1500 mile on the repair and all was well. Checked again at 5000 miles and the pulley is loose. Think I will try a new (used) front pulley that I can get for around $20 and use the loctite 660 again. Hopefully the pulley I get will significantly reduce the slop and the loctite 660 will only have small gaps to fill. I will forget trying to apply a release agent next time and just apply the loctite 660 directly to clean primed pulley and shaft.

WB
 
#32 ·
Just a quick update. The final diagnosis was the rear wheel bearing housing had wallowed out and caused the bearing to fail. It dropped pieces into the center of the wheel hub which caused the clicking noise. They also had to replace the clutch because they misdiagnosed it while trying to find out why the gear shift indicator wasn't indicating properly. The bike now has 72K miles and has had the engine completely rebuilt twice, all under warranty! The only thing it cost me was for new spark plugs this time. I figured I might as well while it was all apart! Also, if you ever get in a situation like mine where your bike is in for repairs for months and months, make a call to Mama Kaw customer service and ask them to compensate you on the warranty. They extended mine for the cumulative time that the dealership had it, almost a year.
 
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