Kawasaki Vulcan Forum banner

Belt Squeak - Gone!

10K views 44 replies 8 participants last post by  DeputyLoud 
#1 ·
Thought I would post a separate thread on this subject. Mainly for people using the search function, hopefully they get a good hit in the results.

I had the dreaded belt squeak from day one after installing the Barons rear overdrive pulley. Been living with it for 2 years, until last week when it got under my skin for that last time.

I pulled the rear wheel off, mainly for inspection and a good cleaning. Thinking it was simply a build up of excessive brake dust. Upon further inspection I noticed some rather significant wear on the teeth. Only have about 7K miles on it. So I still had the oem pulley, looked at that and there is absolutely no wear in that one with 13K miles on that.

So I opted to put the oem one back on and see. It's quiet as can be! I will miss the OD pulley, and the lower RPMs for now. Mainly only on the interstate, anything above 60 mph. Which is never that often, or for very long.

I reached out to the vendor I purchased from and they recommended approaching the mfg, as I have had it for 2 years now. So after 2 emails, Barons has yet to get back to me. I am going to keep bugging them. If I do not hear back from them in a week or so, guess I will have to actually call them. Here's some pics. The one without the wear on teeth is the oem pulley.
 

Attachments

See less See more
4
#3 ·
That is a disturbing amount of wear. I also have both pulleys, and I get belt noise on and off. Belt tension is in spec. I've delt with it with occasional dry silicone treatments (not supposed to attract dirt and won't hurt the belt), but it always comes back eventually. Now I am concerned about how long this pulley will last and what it may be doing to my belt.

Thanks for posting. I've got my 7500 mile service soon and will inspect the pulleys and the belt carefully.
 
#4 ·
To be honest I think the belt looks just fine. I was actually going to start out with a physics question when posting this thread. What would wear first? Reinforced Rubber or Aluminum? The belt is a super hard composite rubber of some kind. I saw no wear to speak of. Strange!

But the teeth design is different. OEM has rounded teeth and Barons had straight edges, which I also thought was strange.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Hmmm, the teeth in my rear pulley seem rounded to me. I'll be interested to hear Baron's comments about this. One or more of three things must be true: (1) the alloy used in their aftermarket pulley is different than that in the stock pulley and wears faster; (2) the shape of the aftermarket pulley is not quite optimized for the belt; or (3) what we are seeing as wear in the pics you attached is something they do not consider abnormal. Whatever the case, since your noise went away after you put the stock pulley back on, it seems that their pulley is associated with belt noise that does not arise with the stock pulley.

I thought I was getting belt noise with the stock pulley, but I now think (after 7000 miles in just over three months) that most of what I was hearing was the transmission and/or injectors. You get to know these noises, and I had different belt noises after installing the pulleys. It will be interesting to me to hear what the shop says about the condition of my belt and after market pulleys, and whether this occasional (like every three weeks) dry silicone treatment is acceptable.

It's an adventure, isn't it!

Happy and safe riding,
Dan
 
#6 ·
I'm interested in whether others think the wear indicated in those photos is significant.
 
#7 ·
I has similar wear with the SW pulley. They replaced it with a supposedly updated version where the Alum had a special hardening treatment etc. I haven't looked at it in 3-4 yrs. I don't know what I would find now. I have it serviced each spring at the dealer and he says it is wearing just fine. I had them install it for me. I think the wear is caused by the alignment notches not being true. If you align it by another more accurate method it will solve some of the problem.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Since installing the pulley it had been adjusted in many different configurations. Kawi belt deflection specs (1.5mm-4mm) on up to HD specs (up to 9mm). Always used micrometer to set adjusters even.

IDK maybe teeth were rounded when I put it on. I do not recall. There does appear to be wear at the top of the teeth, along with the side of the teeth the belt pulls on moving forward. I marked up a pic of the wear on the Barons pulley. There are even some strange wear indicators in the middle of all the teeth that are evident. None of this is present on the oem pulley.
 

Attachments

#11 ·
I have been trying to get a zoomed in picture of the wear. Maybe if you save it to you pc and then zoom in it can be better seen? When I resize it, the pic file size is too big and site won't let me upload it.
 
#12 ·
That looks like excessive wear to me. It's odd that the pulley (metal) would wear that bad and the belt be unscathed. I'm curious to find out if any other owners of the Baron's pulley have the same issue...or if Barons and/or the seller made a mistake and sent you a pulley for a different bike all together. It would seem to me that if the stock pulley and belt have rounded teeth, the aftermarket pulley's teeth should match. All of the photos look as if the Baron's pulley had squared teeth instead of rounded. It doesn't make sense to put a square peg into a round hole.
 
#13 ·
That's what I have. When I got it I looked it over real good. Haven't had any problems yet.
 

Attachments

#14 ·
Gfish would you mind getting a camera in there and see if you can snap a close up pic of your teeth on that pulley. I'd like to know if they are round or not.

There is definitely wear on the top of my teeth. Wondering if the round isn't just worn off?
 
#15 ·
So after umpteen unanswered emails to Barons Customer Service and Sales Depts referencing my specific order, I finally got a response. I was a bit fed up with it this morning so I figured I would just spam them with the same email requesting a simple response. Then finally on the last one I said screw it, I am going to threaten to contact the BBB. I low and behold I get a response asking if I have contacted their Warranty Dept? Ummm no, since the only contact information available on their site is for the 2 depts I mentioned. So I guess I will try the new warranty dept email address.

My emails have obviously been being ignored since all it took was mentioning the BBB to get a response. WTH?
 
#22 ·
This brings back nightmare memories of my experiences with Scootworks last year. Blatant ignoring of email after email. Of course with SW even threatening with BBB and contacting local to them news agencies didn't even phase them. Let's hope Baron's gets their poop in order.

Makes me wonder what the he-double hockey sticks happened to customer service. Seems nobody cares about it anymore. Used to be the customer is always right. Now it's every man for themselves. Shame, such a shame.
 
#16 ·
As you know from my other post, my rear pulley is quite warped. I showed Baron the video, and they agreed right away that it is defective. Don't know how long it will take to get it replaced, but I did appreciate their honesty about it. I also bought their BAK, which I think is an outstanding product. The workmanship in the cover is amazing, everything fit well, and the directions were good. Here's hoping the next pulley will have the same high quality workmanship!
 
#19 ·
I hadn't seen that! HO LEE YOU KNOW WHAT!!! I'm basically stunned that I ended up making the SAME DAMN VIDEO! If you looked at both videos, you might conclude that they were same bloody pulley! Oh My.
 
#23 ·
I hate to call out companies publicly, because they're all just trying to make a living. Moreover, apart from this rear pulley, I've had good experiences with both of these companies. That said, one of the greatest benefits of the internet age is that it is now much easier to hold people accountable for what they say and do. I'm sure that neither Baron nor the Powersport Superstore (where I bought my pulley) want to to be known for bad service, so when you have a valid point, they'll make it right. In my case, so far, both are responding to my inquiries that suggest that I bought a defective product. Hopefully, this will all come out right in the end.
 
#24 ·
I've never had anything but great service from Powersport Superstore. I've never purchased a Baron's product so I can't say anything about them.

As far as the internet age goes, I agree with your statement. What I'll add tho, is that a lot of companies who sell mostly on the net are relying on word of mouth. I'm sure ad campaigns on websites helps some (unless you're like me with ad blockers on) but mostly it's on recommendations from others. Some people swear by customer service. If it's bad, they'll not buy. If it's good, they might even pay a little more to ensure that if there's a problem it'll be handled correctly and quickly. I'm in the latter category. Customer service will make or break a business I spend money with. And if they have horrible customer service (as SW did with my order) I'll never buy from them, or any of their products from other suppliers, new or used, ever again. I'll spend my money with a company that cares about the customer, the customer's experience, and the products they sell.

Here's my scootworks experience
 
#25 ·
Well persistence does pay off in the end. I followed up again today and sent my video of the pulley wabble to them. Had sent the picks of the wear yesterday. I did mention the BBB again saying, let's not go there shall we? And again I get a swift response saying please send us the pulley for review. Even got an address, LOL. Strange thing is it's going to Barons/LA Choppers, and I have also seen direct relation to Cruiser Customizing? How are all 3 of them affiliated?

I have had good customer service from Cruiser Customizing in the past. I got a good price from Moto Part Hub when I bought it. They did get back to me promptly telling me to approach Barons the mfg due to the age of the purchase. Tho their website gives 2 email addresses for contacting them. One for Sales, and the other for Customer Service. Neither gave a response. But when they did get back to me it was from an Orders Fulfillment email address on after threatening with the BBB. Sometimes I think they do that crap on purpose. I prefer emails for a proper trail of evidence to what was said or not said.

I do not put all the blame on them for this. I should have reached out 2 years ago when I took that video and found the issue. But to be honest I really thought the problem was on my end in the bike somewhere. And who knows, it may still be. BUT what I do expect is for a company to stand behind their product to help get to the bottom of it. Only until recently when there seems to be another almost identical complaint, am I taking it further. Pulley will be shipped out Monday. Time will tell where this will lead.
 
#26 ·
Let me ask this. Does anyone here have the Barons aftermarket pulley and not have the squeak. I mean 100% do not have it, never had it, and never going to have it!

I ask because if it does come back that they say the pulley is defective. I need to make a decision if I want a replacement or refund!
 
#27 ·
I'm in the same boat. Tomorrow I will check the runout on my pulley (just got a tool). The shop that installed it and then attempted to fix the belt noise told me the runout was 35 thousandths of an inch in early August, a week or so after they installed it. They thought that was "high." (I should have called Baron then and there.) When I look at the video, I think it's now more. (We'll see). This makes me skeptical about whether the aluminum alloy used in the pulley is up to snuff.

I wish Kawasaki made these different pulleys using the same material as in the stock pulley. That pulley seems to be one piece. The aluminum aftermarket pulley appears to be two pieces: the inner and outer flanges, which are screwed together. I can induce movement in the inner part by squeezing it with my fingers!. The belt tends to run against the outer part, and the key is whether that part is sufficiently rigid. After seeing your pulley and mine, I'm skeptical. I have a hard time believing they would sell pulleys with this much runout --- I would hope not. I think it developed. If that's true, it may not bode well for replacement.

Interested in hearing from others, as I am debating exactly the same issue as DeputyLoud.

Happy and safe riding,
Dan
 
#28 ·
I have both Baron pulleys front and back with no belt noise.
 
#29 ·
GFISH,

I'm assuming your pulley rotates true, yes? Either that, or maybe you've been able to adjust it so that the flange never comes in contact with the belt?

I just measured the "axial runout" (I think that that's the term) on my pulley when mounted on the bike using a dial gauge. That's a technical term for what I would call "wobble." I get 45 one-thousands of an inch, about 1.2mm, which is a LOT. You might wonder whether this is due to wheel runout, since the pulley is mounted on the wheel. However, the brake disc is also mounted on the wheel, and I measured its runout at about 3 one-thousandths. Clearly, most of the runout is due to the wobble in the pulley, as suggested by looking at the video.

How much runout is too much? No tolerance is listed in the service manual for the stock pulley, and Baron did not list a tolerance in any shipping material. The the standard runout for the brake disc per the service manual is 4 one-thousandths of an inch. Hard to imagine a standard pulley runout would be over 4 times that amount.

The shop measured a runout of 35 one-thousandths when they attempted to silence the belt noise back in August. Has it increased over time? I wonder. Is the pulley sufficiently rigid? I wonder.

Happy and safe riding,
Dan
 
#31 ·
I'm very curious how this is going to turn out. I'm with @whiting57, the fact that the belt looks to be in perfect condition but the pulley looks mangled (for lack of a better word) in the video is mind boggling. I hope you both get positive results and responses from Baron.
 
#33 · (Edited)
I had the same issue with the warped rear pulley (see here: http://www.vulcanforums.com/forums/...nterested-your-views-these-pulley-videos.html) and am reporting on the resolution. Baron agreed that the pulley is out of spec and agreed to replace it. I took it off yesterday (will send back tomorrow) and put the stocker back on, leaving the Baron pulley on the front. The rear pulley shows some wear (after about 5000 miles), but not as much as DeputyLoud's. The aluminum definitely has some softness to it, as there is an apparent small ridge where the edge of the belt met the pulley teeth. My bet is that the life of the aftermarket rear pulley is shorter than that of the stocker, but I can't say that for sure. I have no belt noise now, and the "wa wa wa wa" noise at about 40 mph is gone.

It's interesting to ride the bike now with just the front pulley. (BTW, Baron's front pulley seems to be made of steel, and it seems rock solid to me). I never rode with just the front pulley before, as I put both pulley's on at once. The bike has a little more giddy-up off the line, and maybe even at intermediate speeds, but it buzzes earlier. I think if I were riding two-up or hauling a lot of weight, I'd stick with just the front pulley (or a bigger rear tire, which is almost equivalent). However, I think I still like the two-pulley set-up best for me and will install the replacement when I receive it. I like the low RPMs at 65 :).

Happy and safe riding,
Dan
 
#34 · (Edited)
I'm also actually finding I like the extra pull I gained back with just the front OD pulley on. I don't spend a lot of time on the super slab with the Vulcan. But the few jaunts i have it wasn't too bad. My pulley is at Barons for review. You're lucky they agreed to replace before they even had it in hand. Mine is almost 2 years old too. Maybe they are waiting to compare both of ours to get back to me? Or they are just pissed at me for pushing them into reviewing my issue. I wasn't very nice, but it got results and a quick response out of them. Guess we'll see. I haven't decided if I wanna pit one back on yet or not.
 
#35 ·
Quick update. I did email them again today. (Why is it I always have to take the 1st step?) Then I hear back that my pulley did arrive, they have it. Only asked 2 questions. How many miles on it? and How old is it?

More to come:
 
#37 ·
Well after much adoo we finally have a resolution. Had forgotten about this for a few weeks. Then followed up with an email looking for progress on evaluating the worn pulley. Turns out it was only on bike for approx 1.5yrs. Their official response was that I caught a rock in the belt and it wore the pulley. But in the same breath he said they would send me a new one, so I did not argue. Even tho there is no indication of such an event, and the even wear across all teeth does in no way indicate rock damage. I snapped some pics of the new pulley. Below you will see the old worn pulley and the new one. I give them props for replacing it, but it took many months. Good thing it's winter now! And I will need to make a decision as to whether I will put it back on, or sell it to recoup the cash. Hmmmm
 

Attachments

#39 ·
The wear on the old pulley in no way looks like you "caught a rock". That would have to be one perfectly sized, very symmetrical, very hard rock, yet soft enough to not make a clacking noise every time it came into contact with your pulley, while at the same time soft enough as to not poke through your belt at all. I think they just threw out that excuse to replace "I don't know why this happened". At least they replaced it though. They could have been a little quicker about it IMO, but at least now the only decision you need to make is whether or not to reinstall it or sell it. My advice is sell it and not worry about it happening again.
 
#38 ·
I missed the beginning of this thread.
It's great they finally replaced it... after a tone of effort on your end.

I did have noise on my front pulley but it went away after an adjustment.
Makes me glad I didn't do the rear.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Oh, and Poncho gets a reward for predicting that my attempt to make the 9er a better freeway bike with pulleys were somewhat in vain. It was definitely better to me on the freeway with both pulleys, and its remains better now with just the front pulley, but the trials and tribulations I had with the belt noise became too much of a distraction. My response was to buy a Nomad! I'm thinking I should probably sell the 9, but if I do it will be bittersweet. It's kinda like a first girlfriend. And it's a great bike everywhere except over long stints at freeway speed. I think it's a secondary highway touring bike! I think others on this list will confirm that, and some even find it fine on the freeway at higher revs. All the problems I had have been due to aftermarket drive train mods. Sours me a bit on such mods, but hasn't soured me on Kawasaki one bit.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top