What does this sound like to you? - Kawasaki Vulcan Forum : Vulcan Forums
 
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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-20-2012, 01:06 AM Thread Starter
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What does this sound like to you?

I have a 07 1600 classic 13,500 miles. big air kit, cobra hp 2 into one pipes and cobra fi2000 power pro. 1st gear rpms under 2300 and then opening it up to get on it.... she's doggy until 3000 rpms or so.? Higher gears seems similar. Running 91 octane. It reminds me of old school v8 vacuum advance being slow. My brain thinks I want to advance the timing.... does this make sense to anyone?
Thanks Bret

Last edited by iamarchie; 11-20-2012 at 10:17 AM. Reason: correct tunner
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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-20-2012, 10:28 AM
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When there are mods done to a skoot such as what you list the most important aspect of getting all those mods to work together is to deliver the proper air/fuel ratio to the engine. Ignition timing is an important aspect of fine tuning an engine, but is completely secondary to delivering the

Secondary to that is how all those mods work with the engine. I have found many times engines will suffer power and running performance problems when there is a mis-match of componenets that have been installed. For example, I have documented where an aftermarket exhaust will create a performance problem in certain rpm/throttle positions that proper tuning cannot eliminate.

You state you have the Cobra auto-tuner. I and so many others believe that it is completely impossible for any "self-adjusting" FI tuner to be able to provide the proper air/fuel ratio to an engine UNLESS the tuner is able to sample the exhaust and determine what the content of that exhaust is and make the appropriate changes to the FI system.

So my first recomendation is to disconnect the Cobra system and analyze how the engine runs.

HOPE THIS HELPS

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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-20-2012, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamarchie View Post
I have a 07 1600 classic 13,500 miles. big air kit, cobra hp 2 into one pipes and cobra fi2000 power pro. 1st gear rpms under 2300 and then opening it up to get on it.... she's doggy until 3000 rpms or so.? Higher gears seems similar. Running 91 octane. It reminds me of old school v8 vacuum advance being slow. My brain thinks I want to advance the timing.... does this make sense to anyone?
Thanks Bret
Try running regular 87 octane fuel. The only reason to run premium is when bikes are set up lean from the factory, the premium burns slower by retarding detonation thus making the engine run cooler. Since you've altered the air and fuel, you can run regular. I switched and not only does the bike run better, and have quicker throttle response, it gets way better mileage, going from 35-37 mpg to 40-43.

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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-20-2012, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Ray, Pat. Thanks for your input. Ray I agree with your premise. I knew I was taking a chance with this tuner. In fact I called Cobra several times to discuss with them why I had reservations to try it. When I consider a f.I. car or truck has O2 sensors and a mass airflow sensor, logic says something is missing. And yet I'm unaware of a moto with a mass air flow sensor. Why aren't fuel injected motorcycles set up with a mass air flow sensor? I am aware there are tuners out there with O2 sensors. I had such trouble finding a trustworthy and skilled Dynojet guy with my power commander 3 that I wanted to believe cobras tuner would be the end all for my ride. Ray do you use a tuner on your personal ride? Pat I'm going to try running 87 .

Last edited by iamarchie; 11-20-2012 at 02:54 PM.
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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-20-2012, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by iamarchie View Post
Ray, Pat. Thanks for your input. Ray I agree with your premise. I knew I was taking a chance with this tuner. In fact I called Cobra several times to discuss with them why I had reservations to try it. When I consider a f.I. car or truck has O2 sensors and a mass airflow sensor, logic says something is missing. And yet I'm unaware of a moto with a mass air flow sensor. Why aren't fuel injected motorcycles set up with a mass air flow sensor? I am aware there are tuners out there with O2 sensors. I had such trouble finding a trustworthy and skilled Dynojet guy with my power commander 3 that I wanted to believe cobras tuner would be the end all for my ride. Ray do you use a tuner on your personal ride? Pat I'm going to try running 87 .
Fuel injected bikes use a much simpler fuel injection system than a car. Cost, weight, and size are factors here. Way way back a manufacturer was selling throttle body injection systems as 'electric carburettors'. That's basically what you have. A throttle body with fuel injectors in it, and pre-programmed fuel amounts based on a small number of metrics. Like a carb, it's fixed to what it's been set to. But there are still advantages, like less mechanical parts to fail AND better atomized fuel that burns better.

Some bikes ARE starting to have direct injection (injectors in the heads), o2 sensors, MAF's, and all that sort of stuff, but it'll be a while until it hits the V-Twin cruiser. Kawasaki had a fuel injected KZ model in the 80's, fuel injected has existed in cars as the 'norm' since the late 70's, and the last new car sold with a carb in the United States was in 1992, yet we are just NOW getting basic 70's/80's style throttle body injection in our bikes! It's just an issue of size, weight, and cost. You have a lot more room in a car for these technologies than in a bike...

Look at your car sometime and see how much stuff makes up the engine outside the block and heads. Now look at your bike, and see how LITTLE hangs out beyond the block and heads!

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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 11-20-2012, 04:09 PM
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YEA...no need to run 91 octane.The dual plug per cylinder engines don't need the octane, add onto the exhaust and BAK mods you have done that further eliminates the need for anything over 87 octane.As has been mentioned your skoot will run a bit better and get better mpg with the 87.

My shop has had a DynoJet Dyno since 1993, we do all of our own tuning in-house. From what I have seen there is only one other FI tuner that has the
same basic capabilities as the Power Commander, that is the unit made by Bazaaz. I have the PCV with ignition timing adjustability on my Vaquero.

Cobra's claims for a self tuning device was met with skeptisism both by me and a tech at Dynojet, we kinda figured it was an electronic accelerator pump, glorified by Cobra to be able to compensate for any and all modifications done to a skoot.

It is now interesting to see that the new units have an adjustable pot, kinda takes away from the claim of being "self adjusting".

Keep us posted on this, and good talking to you on the phone.

RACNRAY

"TRUE HAPPINESS IS IN THE HEART,NOT IN THE OUTSIDE FIXES!!"
WITH OVER 38 YEARS AS A MOTORCYCLE TECHNICIAN/HI-PO SHOP OWNER I AM A PURVEYOR OF FACT NOT FICTION!
"WE LIVE OUR LIVES IN CHAINS NEVER KNOWING WE HAD THE KEY"
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